Here's a curve ball

This is a discussion on Here's a curve ball within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; At our local IDPA shoots, we have a guy who is an ICE officer. Good guy, darn good shot. He's pretty good about answering questions. ...

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Thread: Here's a curve ball

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Here's a curve ball

    At our local IDPA shoots, we have a guy who is an ICE officer. Good guy, darn good shot. He's pretty good about answering questions. But when I asked him about ammo, it was all I could do to keep a straight face when he told me the best stuff a guy can carry is hardball. S&B, UMC, PMC, it's the way to go. Cheap and reliable. Well, OK. Overpenetration? Doesn't matter, because they all pass through anyway. Most energy is dumped in the target's body, so not much is left when the bullet exits, which it will. All that HST/Gold Dot/Ranger is overrated and too expensive.

    Hmmmm....

    I try to avoid armchair ballistician speak as much as I can. I used to be one of the worst of them (rifles), and know what a bore it quickly becomes. But I do question this guy's advice. I'm amazed to hear this, especially from a cop.

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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    That is not true but no sense in getting into an argument with him. Ball ammo does not expand and in a lot of cases will lose the jacket when it impacts something. Hollow points for the most part expand twice their size on impact and if bonded retain their jacket and weight. They create a bigger wound channel because they expand so there is less of a chance of an exit hole

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Well, he does work for ICE, what does he know about guns..... They are worse than the FBI.
    ANGLICO likes this.

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    One data point does not establish a line, much less a trend.

    I would not attribute any higher credence to his opinion than anyone else's; frankly, I think a patrol officer in Detroit has more credibility than any ICE officer, if for no other reason than the number of officer-involved shootings.
    Smitty
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    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    I just literally laughed out loud

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    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Well, I certainly was surprised to hear a cop say that. Hence this thread. But don't think for a second that I bought it.

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    Member Array John123's Avatar
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    You would be surprised how many military and law enforcement personnel are absolutely clueless when it comes to firearms, let alone ballistics. I assumed at one point that the Mil/Leo crowd would all be part of "the gun club" but it just isn't so. If I had to guess you've probably got about a 1 in 4 chance of meeting a Mil/Leo who actually takes the time to shoot/train on their own time and on their own dollar, maybe less.

    Before I get flamed let me add that I am military, and have worked relatively close to some Leo's. I swear some of them would accept a hi-point 9mm no questions asked and drop it in their issued holster and go on duty... For many it's just a job and a paycheck, they won't bother spending a penny on their own equipment if they don't have to.

    I guess to some people guns are like how I look at computers... I could care less what kind of computer I'm issued or who makes it. I'll run the programs I have to on it and that's about it, whereas other people obsess over the computers issued; go over it with a fine toothed comb, delete old user profiles, figure out ways to speed it up for optimum performance...

    I love guns but don't really care about computers, I'll use mine until it stops working right, then I'll just get a new one that doesn't cost too much.

    To each his own I guess, but gunslingers we are all not. In my unit we have roughly 10% who have a CCW permit. That's just weak, but it is what it is. To some it's just a paycheck and you won't change their minds, just like they won't convince me about dell over gateway etc... As soon as they start talking processors I just glaze over, just like they do when I talk guns.

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    Everybody knows that there have been absolutely no improvements in projectile/bullet design, ballistics, cartridge design, bullet alloys, & powder since before WW I.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Overpriced? I gladly pay $1 per Gold Dot/Hornady critical defense for something that is known for its great reliability. Obviously I would not shoot hollow points at the range. Does he think his life is not worth $1 a bullet? How many does he plan on shooting in a defensive situation? Thousands?
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Count me in the number of the unenlightened. I'm not believing that anything out there works better than a lswc.
    A dollar a bullet? No thanks, I'm not wasting that much money to send a criminal to hadees.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    If he's comfortable, then it's his call. We all chinz on some aspect of protecting our lives, because we think we know better. Some people don't like hollow points, some people like BBQ too much. Some people don't +1 when they carry, some people smoke. Ehn, his choice. Dollars to donuts, it's not going to be the hollow points that made the difference, but the fact that he wasn't truly predicting that cancer would be a problem someday.
    Last edited by CanuckQue; April 30th, 2012 at 04:22 PM.
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
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    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


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    Senior Member Array Maverickx50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    I love guns but don't really care about computers, I'll use mine until it stops working right, then I'll just get a new one that doesn't cost too much.
    Hmmmm I do the same thing with wives LOL
    JEAM, Archie, Burns and 3 others like this.
    I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.

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    Member Array hrufrdr1's Avatar
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    Didn't the NYPD switch to JHPs because of too many through-and-throughs?

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    Member Array Billspider's Avatar
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    When someone tells me something that doesn't sound right I usually ask if they have facts or data to back it up. If I get a belligerent or dismissive attitude I know exactly where to file this new information.
    Utah Concealed Firearms Certified Instructor

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    Member Array JEAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Count me in the number of the unenlightened. I'm not believing that anything out there works better than a lswc.
    A dollar a bullet? No thanks, I'm not wasting that much money to send a criminal to hadees.
    The SWC is probably the most consistent and effective bullet......needs to be cast right though, many are cast too hard.

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