.40 or .45ACP? - Page 4

.40 or .45ACP?

This is a discussion on .40 or .45ACP? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by barstoolguru larger by .005 thousands of an inch; hardy any thing to write home about but if you take that .005 and ...

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Thread: .40 or .45ACP?

  1. #46
    Member Array Foo909's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    larger by .005 thousands of an inch; hardy any thing to write home about but if you take that .005 and multiply it by 13 it equals almost two extra rounds in the same space. so now you have almost the same ft lbs of enegry and more ammo in the same gun

    40 cal 200 gr (13 g) Doubletap FMJ-FP 1,050 ft/s (320 m/s) 490 ft·lbf (660 J)

    45 cal 200 gr (13 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP +P 1,080 ft/s (330 m/s) 518 ft·lbf

    The actual difference is 0.052"

    Which seems very insignificant. However...when expanded in ballistic gelatin the .45 HST maximum diameter is 0.89". Find me a .40 that will do that.

    Also I hate this argument. Guess what Ft-Lbs don't kill people or cause central nervous system fight stoppers. Shot placement, penetration, and EXPANSION gives you larger chance of hitting a heart-spinal cord-lung etc. and stopping the fight.

    Secondly the rounds you listed are skewed. Normal .40 Cal rounds are 180-165 Grains. .45 Standard is 230 grains.


  2. #47
    Member Array Runt's Avatar
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    I would go rent one to see what I thought about. Mag capacity would be my last concern. If you can't control it, then what's the since in owning it. Unless you just want to spray and pray that one round find it's mark. I like my 9mm and .45's, I had a chance to get a .40 on a warranty exchange, but I wanted my .45 instead.
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  3. #48
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    The actual difference is 0.052"

    Which seems very insignificant. However...when expanded in ballistic gelatin the .45 HST maximum diameter is 0.89". Find me a .40 that will do that.

    Also I hate this argument. Guess what Ft-Lbs don't kill people or cause central nervous system fight stoppers. Shot placement, penetration, and EXPANSION gives you larger chance of hitting a heart-spinal cord-lung etc. and stopping the fight.

    Secondly the rounds you listed are skewed. Normal .40 Cal rounds are 180-165 Grains. .45 Standard is 230 grains.
    you are correct but do you think 0.052 thousands of an inch is going to expand that much more than a 40 cal here is proof that not all bullets expand after impact and if they do its not a perfect expansion like in a controlled environment.Standard for whom? Military hard ball is 230 grain; I was trying to compare apples to apples. You can drink from the kool-aid all day long but the .40 cal is not THE fastest growing round for any reason.

    Last edited by barstoolguru; May 11th, 2012 at 09:00 PM.

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    Secondly the rounds you listed are skewed. Normal .40 Cal rounds are 180-165 Grains. .45 Standard is 230 grains.
    A LOT of bullet makes are going with 185gr for .45 acp nowadays. The Federal EFMJ is only 165gr in .45 acp.

    I am not arguing at all. Just that with a .45 you can get bullets that are identical (or pretty close) to .40 cal performance wise, but you can't get a.40 cal to perform like a .45 acp (i.e. 165-185gr bullets EXIST for the .45, 230gr bullets do not exist for the .40)

    The .45 acp in that regard seems more "multi purpose" to me and far easier to control for "most" shooters.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Get 'em all. I did.

  6. #51
    Nek
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    I started off with a 9mm. Usually shoot once a week with a bunch of the guys at the sportsmans club, shooting at steel plates and poppers. You always had to hit the poppers in the upper half to knock em down with the 9. So I upped to a 40 and never had a problem no matter where I was hittin the steel. Well I jumped on the band wagon and got a 45 as well. Then a friend showed up with some 1/2" thick Lexan plastic that he uses for safety guards on equipment. He did a quick test with his 9 and 45, both FMJ, shooting at the Lexan. The 9mm burned right through it, but the 45 put a slight dimple and bounced off. That turned me off from 45's cause they travel so slow. For me the 40 seemed like the best compromise, and in a M&P the recoil/controlability seemed to me to be the same as a 45.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nek View Post
    I started off with a 9mm. Usually shoot once a week with a bunch of the guys at the sportsmans club, shooting at steel plates and poppers. You always had to hit the poppers in the upper half to knock em down with the 9. So I upped to a 40 and never had a problem no matter where I was hittin the steel. Well I jumped on the band wagon and got a 45 as well. Then a friend showed up with some 1/2" thick Lexan plastic that he uses for safety guards on equipment. He did a quick test with his 9 and 45, both FMJ, shooting at the Lexan. The 9mm burned right through it, but the 45 put a slight dimple and bounced off. That turned me off from 45's cause they travel so slow. For me the 40 seemed like the best compromise, and in a M&P the recoil/controlability seemed to me to be the same as a 45.
    So for lexan covered attackers, use .40, got it. For soft targets (i.e. humans), the above means very little. And that goes for the 9mm as well. I have no issues carrying a 9mm or 45, they will all do the job if I do mine.

  8. #53
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nek View Post
    I started off with a 9mm. Usually shoot once a week with a bunch of the guys at the sportsmans club, shooting at steel plates and poppers. You always had to hit the poppers in the upper half to knock em down with the 9. So I upped to a 40 and never had a problem no matter where I was hittin the steel. Well I jumped on the band wagon and got a 45 as well. Then a friend showed up with some 1/2" thick Lexan plastic that he uses for safety guards on equipment. He did a quick test with his 9 and 45, both FMJ, shooting at the Lexan. The 9mm burned right through it, but the 45 put a slight dimple and bounced off. That turned me off from 45's cause they travel so slow. For me the 40 seemed like the best compromise, and in a M&P the recoil/controlability seemed to me to be the same as a 45.
    The 9mm went right through it because it was hot/small and didn't transfer any energy to the target.
    The 45 expanded and did what it was meant to do and that is why it bounce off

  9. #54
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    I would feel extremely comfortable with either in a close quarter self defense situation. I use Federal HST ammunition in both my 40S&W and 45ACP and if you have seen any of the ammo tests on youtube or have done any personal testing with HST ammunition you would see this stuff in both calibers expands to almost an inch.

  10. #55
    Member Array 1boredguy's Avatar
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    Full size duty weapon, try 45 first.

    More concerned about ammo cost, and concealability, try 40 first.

    BUT EVENTUALLY DO BOTH. :)

  11. #56
    Nek
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    So for lexan covered attackers, use .40, got it. For soft targets (i.e. humans), the above means very little. And that goes for the 9mm as well. I have no issues carrying a 9mm or 45, they will all do the job if I do mine.
    Nice of you to twist things around. This was just an example of where the 45 doesn't shine. I've even personally seen where the 45 bounces off a level 3 vest without going through even the first layer, where as the 40 goes through at least 3 layers. The 40cal has the speed and the mass to make ME feel comfortable carrying it for SD. You carry what ever load you feel comfortable with.

  12. #57
    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    I have both and like the .45 MUCH better!!!!! As others have said, the .40 is really "snappy". I don't know how else to explain it. You should just rent one, so that you can find out for yourself what we're all talking about and whether or not it's a problem for you. I bought the .40 to use as my primary CCW (the ammo is cheaper and it's a little slimmer than my .45) with the 9mm as my BUG. I never realized how difficult it would be to accurately shoot. Everyone says I'll get used to it and since the ammo is cheaper, I plan to practice, practice, practice, so that I can become as accurate as I am with my .45 If I had it to do over, I'd have just stuck with the .45 and used the money to buy .45 ammo! Anyway, don't buy a .40 without shooting one first.
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    After reading the posts and watching test videos, I'm thinking of going 9mm M&P for EDC. When I get a 'kitchen pass' I'll get a 1911 .45.
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  14. #59
    Member Array RonCo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mano3 View Post
    After reading the posts and watching test videos, I'm thinking of going 9mm M&P for EDC. When I get a 'kitchen pass' I'll get a 1911 .45.
    Ha, ha... I hear ya on that "kitchen pass"!

    I spend way more time thinking about how I will justify a new gun purchase to the wife than I do on deciding which gun to buy.
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  15. #60
    Member Array Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    A LOT of bullet makes are going with 185gr for .45 acp nowadays. The Federal EFMJ is only 165gr in .45 acp.
    True, bullet makers produce a 185gr bullet, but 230gr is the bullet recommended.

    This is the list I use:
    Barnes XPB/TAC-XP 185gr HP loaded by:
    --Cor-Bon (DPX45185)
    --Taurus (TCB45ACP185HP)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP)
    Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1)
    Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
    Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2)
    Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (23966)
    Speer Gold Dot 230gr +P JHP


    As you can see, a lot of 230gr bullets.

    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    Get 'em all. I did.
    Good idea! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nek View Post
    Nice of you to twist things around. This was just an example of where the 45 doesn't shine. I've even personally seen where the 45 bounces off a level 3 vest without going through even the first layer, where as the 40 goes through at least 3 layers. The 40cal has the speed and the mass to make ME feel comfortable carrying it for SD. You carry what ever load you feel comfortable with.
    I'd still go with a .45; sounds like it dumped all its energy on the vest and the lexan. When it comes to full metal jacket bullets, bigger is better. In hollowpoints? Quality bullets make the playing field mostly level.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    I have both and like the .45 MUCH better!!!!! As others have said, the .40 is really "snappy".
    I agree, the .40 has a snap. I like the "push" of the .45.


    I wonder what bullets will be debating in another 20 years?
    --Jason--

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