Which has better incapacitation> .357sig or 40 caliber? - Page 3

Which has better incapacitation> .357sig or 40 caliber?

This is a discussion on Which has better incapacitation> .357sig or 40 caliber? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not sure. Here are some chrono results (average for 5 shots): Glock 33: Ranger T 125 @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE / PF 160 ...

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Thread: Which has better incapacitation> .357sig or 40 caliber?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Not sure.
    Here are some chrono results (average for 5 shots):
    Glock 33: Ranger T 125 @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE / PF 160
    Glock 33: Gold Dot 125 @ 1,315 fps / 480# KE / PF 164
    Glock 27: Ranger T 165 @ 1,116 fps / 456# KE / PF 184
    Glock 27: Gold Dot 155 @ 1,134 fps / 442# KE / PF 175

    What I am sure of.... .357 SIG produces a little less recoil, but more blast.
    The bottleneck design of the .357 Sig is supposedly the most inheriently feed reliable (trying to feed a .355 bullet into a .40 chamber)

    I feel well protected by either, recoil difference out of subcompact Glock most noticeable when shooting without a Pearce magazine base with pinky rest.

    I'm not sure there would be much difference in incapacitation if any of the above loads were equally placed on an attacker.
    The KE levels are very close.
    The 40 starts bigger and if they both expand will end up bigger, bigger hole usually better.
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!


  2. #32
    Member Array Glockanista's Avatar
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    Which ever one you are the most accurate with. Or just choose both. Buy a conversion barrel for your Glock 22,23,24,27 or 35 and now you can shoot both 40 and 357 Sig out of the same gun and using same magazines.
    I practice the 2nd Amendment....alot

  3. #33
    Member Array gator15's Avatar
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    The 357 sig is one of the most accurate rounds available. Having said that I find that the recoil on the sig feels better. The .40 has too much muzzle flip IMO and I cant reset the sights on the target quick at all, so not my optimum defensive caliber. The best way I can describe the sig recoil is that it is straight back instead of the .40's straight up. 357 sig is becoming more popular too. I expect ammo prices to drop more over the next few years

  4. #34
    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    12 gauge, loaded with 00 buck, and a slug or two thrown in for good measure.

  5. #35
    Member Array framedcraig1's Avatar
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    I'm liking 40's coming out of my SR40C. Gonna agree about shot placement..+1 !!
    All men are equal...CC makes us equal-er.

  6. #36
    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrol View Post
    Not to be curt but truly the ballistics on both those rounds are so close he was right. It doesn't matter. What matters is where your rounds strike the bad guy.I mean you are talking about one round 1 milometer larger in diameter than the other and one round about 100 fps faster than the other. I guess if you have to choose I'd go with the 40 s&w because size of the wound or the bigger the hole is more important than speed. Speed actually creates more trauma but penetrates less and that's why a 45acp is so effective. It's big and slow. If you can't decide between the 30 caliber and the 40 caliber just get a 45.
    I could be mistaken, but It's my understanding that velocity actually penetrates MORE, which is why .45 is the best handgun caliber for home defense, because it will make a bigger hole, is slower and be less likely to over penetrate (versus .40 cal, although the differences are not that great). However, there's some recent data that suggests that, when it comes to over penetration into adjacent walls and into other rooms, because of it's ability to fragment (rather than expand), 5.56 NATO (AR-15) is actually LESS likely to over penetrate and will cause less trauma to individuals in adjacent rooms than even 9mm ammo and is therefore, the best ammo for home defense.
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array RayBar's Avatar
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    A good article on handgun stopping power.An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Check it out.

  8. #38
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayBar View Post
    A good article on handgun stopping power.An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power Check it out.
    Very informative and yet interesting link. Thank-You!

  9. #39
    Member Array dnilson's Avatar
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    This information comes from the "ammo oracle" at AR15.Com - Your Firearm Resource. (AR-15, AR-10, M4 Carbine, M16, H&K, SIG, FNH, FAL, AK-47, 50 Cal, M1/M1A, Handgun, Pistol, Training, Hunting, and More!) The oracle can be found under "Tools" located near the top of the page, below all of the manufacturing ads.

    "Virtually any kind of ammo, with the exception of light bird shot, will easily penetrate typical wall construction (two layers of wall-board separated by 3 to 4 inches of space). testing has shown, however, that after penetrating a typical interior wall, a 5.56mm projectile will have less wounding potential than most common handgun or buckshot loads. This is true because the low mass of the bullet sheds velocity quickly, and velocity is its key wounding component. This doesn't mean that 5.56mm ammo isn't still potentially deadly, but that the severity of an injury is likely to be less from a 5.56mm bullet than from a 9mm, .40, .45, or #00 buckshot round. What is important is not the degree to which these rounds penetrate, but their "ex post lethality" or their lethality AFTER encountering wallboard or other cover/concealment.

    The difference is so significant that the FBI and other ballistic experts recommend that law enforcement transition to handguns to "dig suspects out" of cover because of the superior penetration and wounding ability of handgun rounds over 5.56 or .223.

    This, along with the increasing number of lawsuits from "friendly fire" submachine gun victims and 5.56mm's ability to penetrate ballistic vests, are some of the reasons that many SWAT teams are transitioning away from the 9mm MP5 and selecting 5.56mm carbines instead.

    This is understandable given the longer barrel length and therefore higher velocity and consequently higher penetration of handgun rounds in submachine guns.

    If our experience on the forums are accurate, most shot gunners and submachine gun fans receive this news poorly. It does seem counterintuitive since 5.56mm is a "high powered round." All we can say to this is that the FBI FTU fired hundreds of rounds through carefully constructed wall sections and then into gel. Ignore these results at your own peril."

    For those of you who have an interest in rifles, this is an excellent site. However, beware, if you are a newbie (like me), it's better to lurk for a while before posting as this site is composed primarily of military and LEO...the hardcore variety.
    Pistols: Glock 21SF, Glock 30SF, Colt 1911 GCT (all .45ACP),
    Revolvers: Ruger SP 101 (.357MAG/.38SP), Judge (.410G/.45LC)

    Long guns: Daniel Defense AR-15's (M4V4 and M4V5), Mossberg Shotguns (400 and 500, both 12G), Ruger (.22;LR)

  10. #40
    Member Array Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    I wouldn't like to get hit with either round.
    True dat!

    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Great thought for someone at home. But when I am at the 7-11 my rifle/shotgun are a LONG way away. Everyone knows a handgun isn't optimal, but the only thing practical for having with you 24/7.

    Shoot them in the face and you'll find caliber is a lot less important.
    Yeah, being "out and about" is when your more vulnerable, but we can't stay locked inside forever.
    I'm still on the look-out for a single shot 12gauge to leave in my trunk. A shot of buckshot or slug flying downrange could help; a round of Dragon's Breath would have everyone diving for cover.

    I might need to take six inch paper plates next time, practice some quick "head shots", instead of body shots with eight inch paper plates.


    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    I could be mistaken, but It's my understanding that velocity actually penetrates MORE, which is why .45 is the best handgun caliber for home defense, because it will make a bigger hole, is slower and be less likely to over penetrate (versus .40 cal, although the differences are not that great). However, there's some recent data that suggests that, when it comes to over penetration into adjacent walls and into other rooms, because of it's ability to fragment (rather than expand), 5.56 NATO (AR-15) is actually LESS likely to over penetrate and will cause less trauma to individuals in adjacent rooms than even 9mm ammo and is therefore, the best ammo for home defense.
    Good article HERE about choosing a self defense ammo.
    --Jason--

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    I could be mistaken, but It's my understanding that velocity actually penetrates MORE, which is why .45 is the best handgun caliber for home defense, because it will make a bigger hole, is slower and be less likely to over penetrate (versus .40 cal, although the differences are not that great). However, there's some recent data that suggests that, when it comes to over penetration into adjacent walls and into other rooms, because of it's ability to fragment (rather than expand), 5.56 NATO (AR-15) is actually LESS likely to over penetrate and will cause less trauma to individuals in adjacent rooms than even 9mm ammo and is therefore, the best ammo for home defense.
    more velocity = more penetration is consistently true only for NON-expanding bullets. JHP's and other expanding rounds are designed to expand and/or fragment within a certain range of velocities, depending on the manufacturer's design goals. typically, increasing the velocity of such a round will also increase the rate at which it expands or fragments, so you get LESS penetration. decreasing the velocity (without going overboard about it) also decreases the rate of expansion and thus often INCREASES penetration.



    "in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. in practice, there is." Yogi Berra

    the 'best' is the enemy of the 'good enough.'

  12. #42
    Member Array CARRY365's Avatar
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    I'd go with the .40. Bigger holes are better but the balistics of these 2 rounds are a horse a piece. .40 is going to cost a touch less and be more available. I had a Glock 27 and had a .357sig barrel for it. There was no noticable advantages to either one in accuracy of milk jug blowin ups. You wouldn't want to be hit by either one. Someday I'll replace my cm9 with another 27. The cm is a touch to big for pocket carry imo and I really like my TCP for summer.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array AdamSean's Avatar
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    Shot placement is the most important factor. Also think about potential over-penetration. As I understand it, the .357 Sig round was designed to be a deep penetrating round for law enforcement officers shooting through glass and car doors. You may not want to go through your whole house and into your neighbor's.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnilson View Post
    I could be mistaken, but It's my understanding that velocity actually penetrates MORE, which is why .45 is the best handgun caliber for home defense, because it will make a bigger hole, is slower and be less likely to over penetrate (versus .40 cal, although the differences are not that great). However, there's some recent data that suggests that, when it comes to over penetration into adjacent walls and into other rooms, because of it's ability to fragment (rather than expand), 5.56 NATO (AR-15) is actually LESS likely to over penetrate and will cause less trauma to individuals in adjacent rooms than even 9mm ammo and is therefore, the best ammo for home defense.
    You are mistaken.

    Bullet weight tends to have more to do with it than velocity.

    Example--a 230gr .45 @ 850 will penetrate more than a 115gr 9mm @ 1100. The 9mm sheds velocity faster, penetrates less.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  15. #45
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Here's a you tube video of the .357sig-125 gr.Gold Dot-very impressive(I know its only a gello block)-look at all this enegry being dumped into the gello block-imagine your insides taking this same affect!

    357 Sig 125gn Speer Gold Dot - YouTube

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