FBI Standards: Should we care? - Page 11

FBI Standards: Should we care?

This is a discussion on FBI Standards: Should we care? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I can keep posting, even without digging into the American Rifleman Armed Citizen blog to prove my claims that .22lr will be enough. Laugh all ...

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Thread: FBI Standards: Should we care?

  1. #151
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    I can keep posting, even without digging into the American Rifleman Armed Citizen blog to prove my claims that .22lr will be enough. Laugh all you want but the facts are here. Go ahead and fork over tons of cash and only carry the 1911 as you prefer "instructor." Just remember to exercise proper gun control: 1.5" group at 7 yards.


    Nobody is doubting the fact that the .22 is lethal. The thing is when you are using a gun for self-defense the goal is to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill the person. So while you can give a few examples of people that used a .22 to successfully defend themselves, what people here are trying to tell you is it a weak round for stopping someone.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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  2. #152
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneaky View Post
    You bring to the table of ballistic's a very interesting concept of information! Having seen the 45 and 9mm calibers in a few shooting situations speaks volumes & volumes over any lab test results where conditions are nearly perfect
    for testing various calibers but please remember that an actual shooting situation is far and away from the perfect world of the lab!

    Betting your life on lab results is purely not the best thing you can do for any defense! Talk to retired police officers and active duty LEO and find out what in the heck works in an actual shooting encounter. Ask what ammo they us that has stopped BG's!
    This 2 cents worth of info came the hard way--actual experience!
    I think you missed my point.

    I'm saying I want to know what a certain caliber does in BG as a point of reference not as a do all end all.
    Information is a good thing.
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  3. #153
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once View Post
    I think you missed my point.

    I'm saying I want to know what a certain caliber does in BG as a point of reference not as a do all end all.
    Information is a good thing.
    Sorry About the misunderstanding! You have a good point!

  4. #154
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post

    Nobody is doubting the fact that the .22 is lethal. The thing is when you are using a gun for self-defense the goal is to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill the person. So while you can give a few examples of people that used a .22 to successfully defend themselves, what people here are trying to tell you is it a weak round for stopping someone.
    You'll notice that the second example is a stop. Naked weirdo shot in the leg two times, ran for a short distance, still naked at the end. The gun was invented as a tool for killing, not stopping things. I don't think the person who invented it said to himself, "this is just to stop a deer, I don't want to kill it. I'd rather starve anyways." And as it is such, that argument can pretty much be thrown out the window. Probably ticking off the mods by responding to anybody, but it's pretty unjust to tell me to stop when nobody else is. BTW, if my life is in danger, I'm not shooting to "stop" somebody. If it gets to that point, it's him or me, by his choosing and I have no choice but to retaliate.
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  5. #155
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    You'll notice that the second example is a stop. Naked weirdo shot in the leg two times, ran for a short distance, still naked at the end. The gun was invented as a tool for killing, not stopping things. I don't think the person who invented it said to himself, "this is just to stop a deer, I don't want to kill it. I'd rather starve anyways." And as it is such, that argument can pretty much be thrown out the window. Probably ticking off the mods by responding to anybody, but it's pretty unjust to tell me to stop when nobody else is. BTW, if my life is in danger, I'm not shooting to "stop" somebody. If it gets to that point, it's him or me, by his choosing and I have no choice but to retaliate.
    You'll notice I said "when you are using a gun for self-defense", which if different from deer hunting. And I can tell that you will continue to miss the point, but if someone is attacking you would you rather shoot them and have them die 3 hours later (after they have killed you) or be stopped right away and survive the wound? Of course death is often a result of being stopped by a bullet, but it shouldn't be your goal.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  6. #156
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    You'll notice I said "when you are using a gun for self-defense", which if different from deer hunting. And I can tell that you will continue to miss the point, but if someone is attacking you would you rather shoot them and have them die 3 hours later (after they have killed you) or be stopped right away and survive the wound? Of course death is often a result of being stopped by a bullet, but it shouldn't be your goal.


    Do I hear an Amen---AMEN!

  7. #157
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    .22 Kills a rapist; Duluth, MN:
    Police: Woman Shot Intruder 9 Times In Self Defense | www.wsbtv.com
    .22 Stops a charging naked man; Twin Falls, ID:
    Idaho Falls Homeowner Shoots Naked Intruder | KMVT | Twin Falls, ID News, Weather and Sports | Idaho News, Weather and Sports | State & Regional
    Mass Murderer with a Walther .22:
    Seung-Hui Cho - Criminal Minds Wiki
    Georgia:
    Rapist shot killed with .22 - Survivalist Forum
    Columbia, SC:
    Sheriff: Dead motel robber was going to rape clerk - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina |
    Mass Murderer from Finland:
    Kauhajoki school shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I can keep posting, even without digging into the American Rifleman Armed Citizen blog to prove my claims that .22lr will be enough. Laugh all you want but the facts are here. Go ahead and fork over tons of cash and only carry the 1911 as you prefer "instructor." Just remember to exercise proper gun control: 1.5" group at 7 yards.
    I see you included a mass murderer in your defense of the .22lr in these shootings. Shootings, not gun fights ............. and once again a handful of shootings fails to prove your case. But then as you've snidely pointed out I'm just a lowly "Instructor". If your point was to prove your superiority you failed again.

    Now, enough of your ego ....... let's return to the subject of this thread.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  8. #158
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    I see you included a mass murderer in your defense of the .22lr in these shootings. Shootings, not gun fights ............. and once again a handful of shootings fails to prove your case. But then as you've snidely pointed out I'm just a lowly "Instructor". If your point was to prove your superiority you failed again.

    Now, enough of your ego ....... let's return to the subject of this thread.
    I included 2 mass murderers actually. Nice job using that to try and turn my words on me. I included them because they both used .22 to shoot average people who were moving. People in parking lot gunfights are average people who are moving. I pointed out that you claim to be an instructor. I don't know that, your defense of large caliber points to that as possibly being truth, but again, internet internet internet. Sorry I wounded you, not flossing an ego. Just helping you put yourself out there since you've done it so well with your unfounded claims.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    You'll notice I said "when you are using a gun for self-defense", which if different from deer hunting. And I can tell that you will continue to miss the point, but if someone is attacking you would you rather shoot them and have them die 3 hours later (after they have killed you) or be stopped right away and survive the wound? Of course death is often a result of being stopped by a bullet, but it shouldn't be your goal.
    I can just as easily point out several situations while I was overseas where 9x19 went right through and I was certainly defending myself in that situation. And to be completely honest, although I never stated that it was my goal to kill him, I do see it that way. Can you honestly say that in a stressful shootout, which will last a few seconds that you'll be shooting to "stop" the threat? Even at best, as a right handed marksman (hypothetical situation obviously) due to adrenaline and a desire to live, you'll be punching holes through his center, which will include the lungs liver heart stomach, all potentially fatal areas. A 9mm or whatever can take 3 hours to kill as well. Or like all ammunition, regardless of caliber, it can kill you immediately. There's no standard since everybody is an individual and all situations are different. If he's trying to kill you, your human nature will prompt you to respond with immediate lethal force and you won't be thinking, ok i'm going to aim 2cm to the left of his femur and try and put him down. You'll think, what th-----bangbangbangbang like everybody else. If you didn't think you'll ever have to possibly kill to save yours or anothers life, you wouldn't carry ANY gun.

    It's obvious that some of you are arguing for the sake of arguing which is pointless. I'm going to leave you with this, which is my opinion based on fact and real life experiences, and bow out. Good day to you all.
    Last edited by tricolordad; August 4th, 2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: because i don't like him
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  9. #159
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    It's apparent that we're not interested in debating the value of FBI standards.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

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