Looks like they've branched-off of the Critical Defense line to introduce this new Critical Duty line.
Looks like they've branched-off of the Critical Defense line to introduce this new Critical Duty line.
I think I'll stick with my Gold Dots and Ranger T's.!:yup:
Hornady's New Critical Duty Faces FBI Ammo test...
Sounds more like an over-hyped game from the world of sports.
Make it stop!
When are we going to be done being afflicted with the nuisance of "boutique ammo du jour?"
Critical Defense? Critical Duty? Is that opposed to non-critical defense and non-critical duty? Where do they come up with these names for these products these days?
What a merry-go-round of market manipulation!
Yet, folks buy into it and so it is endlessly perpetuated.
I wonder if you're supposed to switch out the ammo in your mags from Critical Duty to Critical Defense for when you're off duty? :blink:
looks impressive,MidwayUSA has them in 9mm +p for $22.99 and 40cal for $21.99
Every since they came out with the Zombie ammo I lost interest in the company.
Federal HST for me.
I'll stick to the Federal HST's. I get the feeling that Critical Duty translates to: 'Let us show you how good your money looks when it is in our pocket.'
Yeah, I'm sure some of you still prefer the miniball and black powder as well.
For the rest of us, interested in new projectile design and technology, those of us who may have specific needs or wants where this latest Hornady design applies .... yeah, well, we'll keep up with the times and hopefully, we'll keep sharing the info with others as we come across it on various sites.
With regard to the "zombie" ammo comment ... we live in a capitalistic society where smart marketing and cleaver packaging often make the difference between profit and failure. Profit = R&D money, improved designs and more offerings. Failure = one less company out there producing ammo, thus keeping the market competitive and prices down.
The whole zombie thing is hot right now. Personally, imho, Hornady showed some real business acumen and savvy by coming-out with that specific packaging - and the best part about it is that, sort of like baseball cards, it's turned into a collectible overnight. They'll probably never make another run - but this run sure was profitable for them and, good for them.
Now if any of you want to debate bullet design, the pros and cons of the various metallurgy involved, the various bonding techniques, etc., that would be good. Show us just how much you know - we're all waiting. In the meantime there are those of us around here who take this stuff a little more seriously, some of us who may see a specific application where this latest Hornady design would apply.
One last little thing, for the member who asked if there would be a need to switch magazines from "defense" to "duty." Had you watched the video they clearly stated that Critical Defense was built for the average citizen who carried, while the "duty" ammo was geared more towards the LEO and military market because the inherent design lends itself more readily to penetrating barriers, including glass, car doors, heavy clothing, etc., while still offering great expansion and weight retention. In that regard, the stuff seems to be very very impressive ... to those that know what the heck they are seeing.
I've shot and/or loaded and shot just about every pill design known to man out of every conceivable mainstream caliber and platform out there ... modern bullet designs are ever evolving, ever improving and always interesting.
crue2009 ... thanks for being the one (at the time of this post) who offered up constructive feedback
PS: BTW, I agree, the Federal HST is an excellent carry option, one of many. I've carried them myself for quite awhile now.
'Sorry if I hurt your feelings. :dunno:
... and no, I'm not going to debate how many angels can dance on the head of a pin with you. Spend your money however you wish.
There's an argument on the Internet... Anyone have popcorn?
Thing is, I just have no problems with my HST's, they are tried and true defense ammo. Hornady struck the wrong chord with me with the Zombie thing, whether that's a big deal to you or not doesn't matter to me. Crimson Trace did the same thing, not a fan of them either, but that's before the Zombie grip came out.
It's great that there are so many choices out there, we can all make our own and go with a company who we like to do business with.
I look forward to reading reports of the ammo, I'm sure it puts holes in things just fine.
I think this is a great time we live in, so many great ammo choices - we're fortunate.
I have my Glock 26 and Sig loaded with it. At 135gr and +p coupled with the flex tip configuration, I don't see were it can possibly hurt. I kinda like the bullet design, but honestly feel a Gold Dot in 147gr would work just as good. I'll use the stuff if it's available, but that's about as far as I'll go. IMO, most any good round in 9mm will do the trick.
OP, IMO Hornady has the ribbing coming in regards to the Zombie Max load. Nothing personal meant towards you at all; the whole "Zombie" crap is just ridiculous. IMO the guys are just have a little fun. :bier:
As far as the zombie thing is concerned, given your reference to the popcorn meme - I must assume you have a sense of humor, correct? Well, look at the zombie marketing and have a sense of humor Thunder - that is the way it was meant to be when the Hornady marketing team put it together - and it worked. It was brilliant imho. You weren't buying Hornady ammo prior to the zombie marketing ploy anyway were you? You've said it yourself ... you're a Federal HST man - so Hornady didn't lose your business anyway.
HST is very very good. I wish it wasn't so darn expensive because I like to practice more, with what I carry - but HST is very very good.
This "duty" ammo does have a place though. Engaging a barricaded bad guy and still hoping for good expansion once the pill reaches the soft tissue ... this bullet design looks very promising imho.
So what if one of the guys who carries an XDM 9 were to post something about an upgrade to the design, and some of us were to immediately roll-up into that thread blowing it up with comments about how it is made by ex-commies and the reliability issues we've heard about and the service and parts issues we've heard about and how the thing feels like a brick in your hand and all the while we're touting how great our expensive Kimbers, Colts, SIGs and Wilsons are, or how reliable and pretty and professional our Glocks are and claiming they are so much better than the XDM, yada yada ... that would be considered rude, would it not? Probably not very appreciated by the XD owners out there either. And I'm sure we could come-up with plenty of snarky rude comments to sling at the member's XDM - but why? (Heck, at the Range, I've even heard jokes about people who own XDs and XDMs - but I would never post them here because I would never want to offend an XD/XDM owner quite frankly.)
Now, the first thing that hit me with some of the comments above were, why?
Thus, my reply. But yeah, I get it that some there are children that have taken-over almost every Internet BBS out there these days - and the rest of us have to wade through the bravo sierra hoping to find the occasional important new info while having to tolerate the kiddies. That's just the way it is - and some days I'm good with that - just turning the other cheek. While other days,
Anyways - for those interested, the video above is what it is.
I'm not raining on your post, Airborn Falcon but I am picking on the ammo companies for continually rolling out repackaged, rebranded, ammunition purported to be loaded with the must-have "magic bullet of doom" for the bad guy. Forgive the lack of enthusiasm but it's all been seen before...many times. I honestly don't feel there is nearly as much technological wizardry wrapped up in any of the modern specialty ammunition choices having a meaningful influence on a stop as many apparently do and as the makers promote. Basic expansion is nice gravy when the bullet is properly placed but there just aren't any super bullets despite what marketing would have us believe. That's only one opinion though. If you don't like it then read only the posts containing opinions with which you agree.
All this hype does sell expensive ammunition really well though.
As far as the questions:
"I guess it would have been too much to expect from you to perhaps have asked something constructive such as, "I wonder if this bullet design might be carried in a spare mag that could be pulled when hard barrier penetration was necessary? How easy would it be to drop the mag full of HSTs and pop a new mag full of these in if the bad guy was behind cover ... or, better yet, this new ammo could turn some cover into concealment."
Question No. 1: Of course it could be carried in a spare magazine as could any other ammunition that meets dimensional specifications. One would not expect otherwise. And, one could certainly reload with a magazine-full if he felt that hard barrier penetration was necessary...if he has the time to execute the reload.
Question No. 2: Is a rehash of question No. 1 except that it isn't expected that the HSTs are going to cling to the sides of the interior of the magazine well and refuse to be dropped.
Question No. 3: There's ammunition and then there's ammunition. There's cover and then there's cover. Any of several ammunition choices could turn some types of cover into concealment, depending on what sort of cover the bad guy is crouching behind. An 18-inch oak tree will always remain cover, even if an armor-piercing bullet is fired at it from a .30-06, even though such a load has a near miraculous way of turning a lot of cover into mere concealment. This ammunition cannot be expected to do it all, in all instances, providing both a proper amount of penetration and a proper amount of expansion.
"So what if one of the guys who carries an XDM 9 were to post something about an upgrade to the design, and some of us were to immediately roll-up into that thread blowing it up with comments about how it is made by ex-commies and the reliability issues we've heard about and the service and parts issues we've heard about and how the thing feels like a brick in your hand and all the while we're touting how great our expensive Kimbers, Colts, SIGs and Wilsons are, or how reliable and pretty and professional our Glocks are and claiming they are so much better than the XDM, yada yada ... that would be considered rude, would it not?"
No, it would not be considered rude. It is forum discussion. If we are going to do no more than to get on here to say "it's all good" and sing "Kum ba ya" in harmony together than it's not a forum by definition.
"I can sure relate to the whole freedom of thought thing. He seems willing to allow the rest of us to express our thoughts without undue disruption - and I appreciate that."
You made the above statement. Are you unwilling to allow the rest of us to express our thoughts? Or, is the whole "freedom of thought thing" a one way street?
"I get it that some there are children that have taken-over ... and the rest of us have to wade through the bravo sierra hoping to find the occasional important new info while having to tolerate the kiddies."
Think about the above statement and make certain that you aren't projecting.