This is a discussion on The problem with stopping power. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Cuda66 Argument Clinic - YouTube LOL, I thought so........
"Whats up Knucle Head" Tacman605 2013
"I want the biggest fastest round available, know what I mean" 40Bob 2013
Not a terrible article. The author has some valid points. He also leaves all sorts of variables out of his discussion - and I don't agree with a lot of his numbers. I'm glad that I've been fortunate enough to scour these forums for solid info - rather than trusting someones judgement from a single article.
Generally the article is correct.
As I have stated before you either have to cause the person enough pain to make him not want to play or mechanically break him where he can't play anymore. You also have to realize that the individual's pain theshold has a lot to do with his compliance. Imagine the guy who can take a shot to the chin and just shake it off but you crush his kneecap and he is down for the count. I do not think there is a certain level of adrenaline dump that would equal "feeling no pain" it would all depend on the individual.
I am in agreement that shot placement is of higher importance than caliber, but that is my opinion. In my work I am restricted to ball ammo so placement is everything. As HB stated nothing is 100%. Shoot him until he stops what it is he was doing that made you shoot him in the first place.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. (WETSU)
Will the permit cover my 2" pocket knife?
Then we will form an organization to protect the rights of the knife owners:
NKA (National Knife Association).
So you don't get me wrong, the above is a satire....
Seriously, more people are killed by a .22, simply because its the most popular gun going in the US. Its been said you can kill an elephant with a .22 if you get the round into his ear channel, which will "funnel" it into the brain, and incapacitate him. However, carry a .22 for SD? No way, Jose.
Now, shoot the same elephant with 44 mag, but hit him in a non-vital area, it will get him very pissed off.
Now all that said, many of the ammo designs are done so for a specific situation. It was said the Winchester silvertip HP was designed for expansion, and not to overpenetrate. Such as used by a court bailiff, or airline/airport marshall, who may have to use their weapons on a BG in a crowd, and not kill someone in back of them. Next came the hydrashok. It was a revision on the silvertip by using hard lead inside and softer lead/jacket on the outside. This allows the inside mass to penetrate even if the outer jacket/lead is stripped off, such as going thru a bone.
Then came the present slew of designs for short barrel, +ps, and the such.
Remember this. When they were developing loads, they had a certain amount of chamber pressure to worry about. Many of the older guns and the cheap foriegn guns (AKA saturday night specials) would distruct with heavy loads, so they loaded down to protect themselves from lawsuits.
Heres another thing to ponder: look at a .38 special alongside the 9MM. The casing is humounguos in comparison to the 9. Yet, the 9 has higher velocity. Why? 38 works around 25,000 PSI and 9 about 50,000 PSI. Big difference.
How much pressure will a Smith revolver take, using modern metalurgy? I don't know, maybe the engineers know, but nobody will tell, getting back to the lawsuit thing.
Printed on some ammo boxes "Ensure that your gun is capible of shooting modern ammo" How should the gun owner know?
You load a hydrashok, gold dot, or even a silvertip to 40,000 PSI and then it will rip hell out of what you shoot.
Again I say, where you hit the BG is more important than what you hit him with.
"2 in the chest, one in the head
even the jolly green giant will fall down dead"