Ballistic Glass Tests - 9mm +P+, 357 Sig, 40 SW, 45 ACP

[onacoma]

THIS IS NOT A CALIBER WAR POST!

At the PD Gun Range we're building we have ballistic glass between the range and the range master station that controls the targeting and lighting systems. We did a test of the ballistic glass with the pistol rounds as well as the rifle rounds Here are the Pictures for the pistol rounds:

9mm_357Sig_40SW_45ACP_2_sm.jpg

Impact Side

9mm_357Sig_40SW_45ACP_DownRangeSide_sm.jpg

Down range side

Note that the 9mm +P+, 357 Sig, and 40 SW are embeded in the glass. Deepest penetration was to the third layer (4 Layers in total). The 45 ACP penetrated the 1st layer and bounced off the second layer.

If we look at the energy halos the 40 SW and 357 Sig produce the largest. 9mm +P+ produced a small halo and the 45 ACP none.

Also note that the 9mm +P+ did not penetrate the 3rd layer coming out of a Glock 17 but when shot through a HK MP5 it penetrated the ballistic glass and impacted the target behind the glass. What a difference a few inches make!

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[onacoma]

Since I carry a HK P2000 SK as my daily carry, we did some extra test. These were done using a Glock 33 and the same ballistic glass:

357SigImpactSide_sm.jpg

Impact Side

357SigDownRangeSide_sm.jpg

Downrange Side

357SigDownRangeSide_2_sm.jpg

These tests were done with Winchester Ranger 125gr 357 Sig T-Series and DoubleTap 147 gr 357 Sig. Penetration was ± the same. The energy halos were similar to the 40 SW.

So what you going to shoot? Please keep in mind that I don't think BGs wear Ballistic glass body armor, but the result do show some interesting results as they relate to auto glass, car doors, etc.

[ArkhmAsylm]

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Two words - over penetration. I'm thinking that most defensive shootings are done in the open & that barriers are not an issue.


Thanks for the interesting ammo test photos!

[Blades]

So what you going to shoot? Please keep in mind that I don't think BGs wear Ballistic glass body armor, but the result do show some interesting results as they relate to auto glass, car doors, etc.

Something from this LIST that "jonconsligno" told me about; same as before.

[multistage]

That's pretty cool. I like the halo.

[ANGLICO]

Thank you for posting this as 'Politically Caliber Neutral'! LOL

Putting holes in things is fun! Breaking things is even better! OK, I was ruined by over two decades in the Marine Corps.

We use to take the old (swap out) Balistic Windshield out of the Hummers and shoot em up so that the younger enlisted would understand (they got to shoot it) just how much or how little they were protected..... Big eye opener.

Semper Fi,

[onacoma]

Thank you for posting this as 'Politically Caliber Neutral'! LOL

Big eye opener.

Semper Fi,

The big eye opener was the performance of the 9mm +P+ in the Glock 17 vs the MP5 (not pictured). Same bullet, same powder charge, but a world of difference in it performance thru a long barrel! Something most understand, but to see it happen and prove the point reinforces the mind's picture of the performance.

Keep in mind the Colt M4s and MP5s will be use in the range, all penetrated the ballistic glass, so the range master needs to know who or is it whom he can tell "You don't know how to shoot! or my grandmother can handle that firearm better than you!" That statement was PC'd for the protection of the innocent!

As for the caliber neutral, most of us have our minds set, so I didn't want to confuse anyone with the facts. And 22 pages of mine is big or better or faster than yours bring out saddle sores when riding this dead horse!

[oneshot]

Very interesting findings.
This further reinforces my desire to find an M&P .357c, or something similar(size wise/manufacturer), if that is not possible.

Its interesting that you chose to use +P+ instead of +p, or regular 9mm ammo.
Not very many firearms manufacturer's advocate the use of +P+ in their firearms, and would most likely void warranty.
I use +P in my 9mm's and would like to have seem how good, OR dismal it would have stacked up against the others.

In conclusion, I don't think I would be at TOO severe a disadvantage by using 9mm+P OR .45ACP, but I think it shows how better served one would be by using a firearm in .357sig, or .40, which BTW I believe .40 is over hyped somewhat.

[onacoma]

Its interesting that you chose to use +P+ instead of +p, or regular 9mm ammo. Not very many firearms manufacturer's advocate the use of +P+ in their firearms, and would most likely void warranty.

In conclusion, I don't think I would be at TOO severe a disadvantage by using 9mm+P OR .45ACP, but I think it shows how better served one would be by using a firearm in .357sig, or .40, which BTW I believe .40 is over hyped somewhat.

Again this is an LE facility. As for the +P+, the only manufacturers I know that allow the use of +P+ are Glock and HK. The department keeps the +P+ for their HK MP5s, I believe only 1 officer out of the 200 carries a 9mm on duty and she carries the Winchester Ranger +P T-Series. My personal carry pistols are HK P2000 SK 357 Sig or P2000 SK 40 SW with a 357 Sig barrel in it, and the only exception being a Walther PPS 9mm. Note: out of my HK P2000 SK 9mm (range training pistol) the 9mm +P+ is a flame thrower (± 8" flame).

That being said, I would rather have a MP5 with 9mm +P+ than a Colt M4 in a CQB.

Based only on the energy halos, the 40 SW or the 357 Sig seem to be the ticket. And as I stated this isn't a caliber proof, so I personally don't feel under armed when I'm carring any of my 9mm +P pistols or even with my wife carring her PK 380. My son who is an LE in Northern Nevada carries a 45 ACP and I never feel the least bit under armed when we're with him.

[HCF]

Very interesting thanks for sharing

[Foo909]

I would love to hear what those rounds sound like hitting the glass. I imagine it sounds like a rubber hammer on tupper ware "THWUNK, THWUNK"

[deadguy]

What? No 10mm?! Oh yeah. You needed to save the glass for later testing. :)

[ppkheat]

What brand ballistic glass, what was the thickness and how many layers?

[onacoma]

What brand ballistic glass, what was the thickness and how many layers?

ArmorTex and it is 4 layers. The two outside layers are ±1/4 and the two inside layers are ±1/2". The outside layers are harder than the inside layers. The glass is rated for 44 Mag and we did test the 10mm short, aka 40 S&W.

[Beans]

In the mid 80's a smaller Southern Nevada PD was doing some testing for some ballistic material to provide protection for their radio room. They had the ballastic glass but was doing the testing for the walls.

I just happen to be at the PD range when the testing was being conducted. They settled on a material that would stop a 125 gr .357 Mag bullet out of a 6 inch S&W revolver.

I just happen to have my Marlin 1894 lever gun in .357 with me. The first shot just sailed right through the material. It was an eye opener for everyone. The results then went back to the bean counters to decide if the threat of someone coming in to the PD with a rifle was worth the extra cost of the more expensive material that would defeat the rifle bullet. IIRC the material was not upgraded and the orginial material was selected.