Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin

[taseal]

Just been browsing their website to kill some time...

Pretty much all the bullets that they tested in all the calibers I looked at (9, 40, 45, 380) failed to expand through their bone and gelatin mix that they have.

the only one that consistently expanded in all calibers is the Corbon DPX ammo and the Federal EFMJ

I never really cared for those cartridges, but it's worth checking out for me now.

have a read and look at pictures... I think it's very interesting

.45ACP report
9mm report
.40S&W report

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[taseal]

jeez... too bad that DPX is ungodly expensive!

also want to look at the hornady's flextip ammo stuff. that critical duty looks good.

[NCMedic8617]

My only thoughts on this are that the method they used isn't anatomical correct, humans aren't plate armored and this is what their testing represents. The first media the projectiles encounter plug the cavity and they preformed as a FMJ, as is common with all barriers.
I still would like to see testing done on anatomical correct torso mock up with bones, organs, tissue, etc.. However that is cost prohibitive. I wonder if the results would be difficult if the had made actual "ribs" placed under the surface if they would of see any expansion due to the hydraulic fluid mechanics

Sent from this... Using that...

[Cuda66]

Agreed with above.

The only part of the body where that simulant might--and I stress MIGHT--be actually represented is the skull. And let's face it--most direct, penetrating skull hits are fight stoppers.

Remember--the ribcage isn't directly under the skin; there's muscle & fat between them that will begin the expansion process.

Also--the DPX (and to an extent the EFMJ) is pretty much the only modern loads he tested; just looked at the .45acp test, but Starfire and SXT are both older designs that are known for poor barrier performance, and the 200gr Gold Dot has always been known for failure to expand.

Seems he kinda cherrypicked some rounds to make pet loads look good. Put some Ranger-T, 230gr LE Gold Dot, or HST loads in there, and you will likely have consdierably different reults.

[taseal]

isn't the LE gold dot (what I currently carry) and gold dot the same thing?

also the they do test some ranger like ammunition there IIRC. some winchester.

I liked it because it represents a well placed sternum shot. the perfect spot you want to hit to destroy the heart.

I think the problem is that most of the HPs just get filled up with bone media. and with a sternum shot, it's going to happen.

I really want to check out the critical duty stuff.

this is why I'm starting to like my Five Seven. it's not gonna expand. it's just gonna go in, and them tumble around in there destroying anything it tumbles through.

[sgb]

My only thoughts on this are that the method they used isn't anatomical correct, humans aren't plate armored and this is what their testing represents. The first media the projectiles encounter plug the cavity and they preformed as a FMJ, as is common with all barriers.
I still would like to see testing done on anatomical correct torso mock up with bones, organs, tissue, etc.. However that is cost prohibitive. I wonder if the results would be difficult if the had made actual "ribs" placed under the surface if they would of see any expansion due to the hydraulic fluid mechanics

Sent from this... Using that...

I agree 110%

[gunthorp]

I've carried DPX in all calibers for several years. Here's some observations from John Farnum.

Gunthorp Ammunition Basics

[Cuda66]

Except you aren't going to perfectly place it on the sternum, and even if you do, the odds are that there's going to be an arm in front of it (as if presenting a weapon) that will jumpstart expansion.

Remember--real life don't look like silhouette targets.

And, yes, LE gold dot is the same--just cheaper.

[taseal]

Very nice read right there!

Problem is that they're very expensive. I would have to buy over 100 rounds for my 9mm, and at least one box each per pistol to make sure they cycle ok (and that's bare minimum)

too bad double tap ammo doesn't make a 115gr version for the 9!

then I will need another 60 for my .45s (mk23 and 1911)

and at least 20 for my lady's P238.

I'm looking at over 200 bucks of ammo, and that's with minimal testing! OUCH!!!

Perhaps I need to just buy the bullets and make my own cartridges.

I've carried DPX in all calibers for several years. Here's some observations from John Farnum.

Gunthorp Ammunition Basics

[gunthorp]

You're worth it.

Neither Barnes nor any powder mfgr will give you any loading data that even approaches what Cor Bon displays through my chronometer.

[Haywood]

NYPD is happy with the performance on the street of the Gold Dot. That's a pretty good test to me.

[glockman10mm]

Knowing this, I guess it's truly a miracle that William Butler Hickock killed so many people with a 36 Navy Colt shooting a tiny lead ball with the ballistics of a 380 acp, only it used Black Powder.

The wonders of inet wisdom keep marching on.

[Risky]

NYPD is happy with the performance on the street of the Gold Dot. That's a pretty good test to me.

Seems like to me its the NYPD I'm always reading about shooting a perp 46 times without actually killing him

[taseal]

well... this is another proven round I think, and it's MUCH MUCH MUCH more affordable.

Hornady 9mm +P 135 gr FlexLock

[tacman605]

Seems like to me its the NYPD I'm always reading about shooting a perp 46 times without actually killing him

Thats because it is much more important where you hit them as to what you hit them with.