Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin

Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin

This is a discussion on Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just been browsing their website to kill some time... Pretty much all the bullets that they tested in all the calibers I looked at (9, ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    911

    Interesting research of mine from brassfetcher about expansion through bone/gelatin

    Just been browsing their website to kill some time...

    Pretty much all the bullets that they tested in all the calibers I looked at (9, 40, 45, 380) failed to expand through their bone and gelatin mix that they have.

    the only one that consistently expanded in all calibers is the Corbon DPX ammo and the Federal EFMJ

    I never really cared for those cartridges, but it's worth checking out for me now.

    have a read and look at pictures... I think it's very interesting

    .45ACP report
    9mm report
    .40S&W report


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    911
    jeez... too bad that DPX is ungodly expensive!

    also want to look at the hornady's flextip ammo stuff. that critical duty looks good.

  3. #3
    Member Array NCMedic8617's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    126
    My only thoughts on this are that the method they used isn't anatomical correct, humans aren't plate armored and this is what their testing represents. The first media the projectiles encounter plug the cavity and they preformed as a FMJ, as is common with all barriers.
    I still would like to see testing done on anatomical correct torso mock up with bones, organs, tissue, etc.. However that is cost prohibitive. I wonder if the results would be difficult if the had made actual "ribs" placed under the surface if they would of see any expansion due to the hydraulic fluid mechanics

    Sent from this... Using that...
    sgb and Fisher10 like this.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,308
    Agreed with above.

    The only part of the body where that simulant might--and I stress MIGHT--be actually represented is the skull. And let's face it--most direct, penetrating skull hits are fight stoppers.

    Remember--the ribcage isn't directly under the skin; there's muscle & fat between them that will begin the expansion process.

    Also--the DPX (and to an extent the EFMJ) is pretty much the only modern loads he tested; just looked at the .45acp test, but Starfire and SXT are both older designs that are known for poor barrier performance, and the 200gr Gold Dot has always been known for failure to expand.

    Seems he kinda cherrypicked some rounds to make pet loads look good. Put some Ranger-T, 230gr LE Gold Dot, or HST loads in there, and you will likely have consdierably different reults.
    Fisher10 and glockman10mm like this.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    911
    isn't the LE gold dot (what I currently carry) and gold dot the same thing?

    also the they do test some ranger like ammunition there IIRC. some winchester.

    I liked it because it represents a well placed sternum shot. the perfect spot you want to hit to destroy the heart.

    I think the problem is that most of the HPs just get filled up with bone media. and with a sternum shot, it's going to happen.

    I really want to check out the critical duty stuff.

    this is why I'm starting to like my Five Seven. it's not gonna expand. it's just gonna go in, and them tumble around in there destroying anything it tumbles through.

  6. #6
    sgb
    sgb is offline
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    You don't need to know
    Posts
    2,414
    Quote Originally Posted by NCMedic8617 View Post
    My only thoughts on this are that the method they used isn't anatomical correct, humans aren't plate armored and this is what their testing represents. The first media the projectiles encounter plug the cavity and they preformed as a FMJ, as is common with all barriers.
    I still would like to see testing done on anatomical correct torso mock up with bones, organs, tissue, etc.. However that is cost prohibitive. I wonder if the results would be difficult if the had made actual "ribs" placed under the surface if they would of see any expansion due to the hydraulic fluid mechanics

    Sent from this... Using that...

    I agree 110%
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355
    I've carried DPX in all calibers for several years. Here's some observations from John Farnum.

    Gunthorp Ammunition Basics
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    2,308
    Except you aren't going to perfectly place it on the sternum, and even if you do, the odds are that there's going to be an arm in front of it (as if presenting a weapon) that will jumpstart expansion.

    Remember--real life don't look like silhouette targets.

    And, yes, LE gold dot is the same--just cheaper.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    911
    Very nice read right there!

    Problem is that they're very expensive. I would have to buy over 100 rounds for my 9mm, and at least one box each per pistol to make sure they cycle ok (and that's bare minimum)

    too bad double tap ammo doesn't make a 115gr version for the 9!

    then I will need another 60 for my .45s (mk23 and 1911)

    and at least 20 for my lady's P238.

    I'm looking at over 200 bucks of ammo, and that's with minimal testing! OUCH!!!

    Perhaps I need to just buy the bullets and make my own cartridges.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    I've carried DPX in all calibers for several years. Here's some observations from John Farnum.

    Gunthorp Ammunition Basics

  10. #10
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355
    You're worth it.

    Neither Barnes nor any powder mfgr will give you any loading data that even approaches what Cor Bon displays through my chronometer.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Haywood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    1,184
    NYPD is happy with the performance on the street of the Gold Dot. That's a pretty good test to me.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,912
    Knowing this, I guess it's truly a miracle that William Butler Hickock killed so many people with a 36 Navy Colt shooting a tiny lead ball with the ballistics of a 380 acp, only it used Black Powder.

    The wonders of inet wisdom keep marching on.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #13
    Member Array Risky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
    NYPD is happy with the performance on the street of the Gold Dot. That's a pretty good test to me.
    Seems like to me its the NYPD I'm always reading about shooting a perp 46 times without actually killing him

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    911
    well... this is another proven round I think, and it's MUCH MUCH MUCH more affordable.

    Hornady 9mm +P 135 gr FlexLock

  15. #15
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,051
    Seems like to me its the NYPD I'm always reading about shooting a perp 46 times without actually killing him

    Thats because it is much more important where you hit them as to what you hit them with.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

brass fetcher 380
,
brass fetcher 380 dpx
,
brass fetcher ammo testing
,

brassfetcher

,
brassfetcher 200
,
brassfetcher 380
,
brassfetcher ballistics
,
brassfetcher bone
,
brassfetcher bone test
,
brassfetcher tests
,
brassfetchers
,
gold dot ammo shot through bone and gelatin
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors