12 g. bird shot for SD; meat test by gunblast.com/Jeff Quinn

12 g. bird shot for SD; meat test by gunblast.com/Jeff Quinn

This is a discussion on 12 g. bird shot for SD; meat test by gunblast.com/Jeff Quinn within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A nice 12 minute video but if you're ADD go to the 5:00 mark for the good stuff....

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Thread: 12 g. bird shot for SD; meat test by gunblast.com/Jeff Quinn

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    12 g. bird shot for SD; meat test by gunblast.com/Jeff Quinn



    A nice 12 minute video but if you're ADD go to the 5:00 mark for the good stuff.
    RayBar, msgt/ret and beararms like this.
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    Member Array pilot101's Avatar
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    Sweet video, solid proof! Not to mention the many hilarious quotes.

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    sgb
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    Nothing new, bird shot produces a large shallow wound. Only those ignorant in terminal ballistics would choose it over buck shot for SD.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    I watched the video, but my personal experience with a rabid coyote and #7-1/2 birdshot convinced me for all time that I don't want to rely on light shot like that for personal defense. Make mine buckshot, please.
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    Member Array BWBracelets's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that in order for a shot to center mass to be fatal it would need to penetrate about 12 inches...but in his test the bird shot penetrated only 4 inches.

    It would hurt no doubt, but doesn't seem very deadly.

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    Member Array DanDglassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilot101 View Post
    Sweet video, solid proof! Not to mention the many hilarious quotes.
    "Goober Smooches" @8:35
    pilot101 and Guest1 like this.

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    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanDglassman View Post
    "Goober Smooches" @8:35
    He is a "Goober Smooch" try shooting a live pig with that bird shot and see what happens.
    gasmitty, bmcgilvray and Bad Bob like this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    in order for a shot to center mass to be fatal it would need to penetrate about 12 inches
    12" is through and through a person. 4" is a "fatal" depth, but one asks how quickly death occurs.

    Birdshot would certainly be quickly fatal at a distance of 1, 2, maybe 3 or four feet, but I load mine with 3.5' magnum buckshot. I thus have no doubt about the efficacy of same.


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    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    12" is through and through a person. 4" is a "fatal" depth, but one asks how quickly death occurs.

    Birdshot would certainly be quickly fatal at a distance of 1, 2, maybe 3 or four feet, but I load mine with 3.5' magnum buckshot. I thus have no doubt about the efficacy of same.
    4" is a "fatal" depth ......... if you're shooting 90 degrees to a stationary Human and hit said human dead center in the pump with no intermediate barrier ...... and that still doesn't guarantee immediate incapacitation as Rock and Glock pointed out which is actually the desired result. - just saying
    beararms likes this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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    and that still doesn't guarantee immediate incapacitation which is actually the desired result.
    As you note, it is a matter of immediate incapacitation..........how quickly death occurs."

    Personally, I prefer through and through in my circumstances but that is not the 12" referenced. He said "COM" and 12"..........I'd guess I'm less than 10" thick, so a 12" penetration is "through and through". You ain't gonna get 10", 12", or "through and through" with birdshot at much more than 4 or five feet I'd guess, but I've never run tests. At less than 4 or 5 feet you're going to get hydraulic failure / hydraulic shock and hydraulic explosion with birdshot.

    I think we're saying the same thing. My Benelli is loaded with Buckshot. I am not running penetration tests on any idiots that happen to walk into my house hunting for a quick game of hide-and-seek. I will turn their cover into concealment within the confines of my house.

    I think sgb has it right.

    Birdshot sure would be a mess for the first responders and ER docs though..........
    bmcgilvray likes this.


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    The 12" min was set by the FBI after the Miami shootout and refers to minimum depth in ballistic gelatin. Miami is where they suddenly realized that bullets may need to go through other stuff like arms, forearms, sternums, leather jackets, windows, etc before they actually reach vital organs.

    As for Mr. Quinn, there was no sternum in his frontal shot demo and is still missing the point of not always getting the perfect shot presentation. Oh well, those who ignore history .....

    Also, I think that looks more like ~#2 shot (waterfowl, I think) than what people refer to bird shot like #71/2 or higher. For ref 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 to 9 shot contains 400 to 650 pellets - not what I saw in the vid. Me thinks he's cookin' the books just a tad. Here's a site with a breakdown of different shot loads and pics of actual pellets.

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    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    Good video.
    On Youtube, TNoutdoors9 recently filmed a ballistics test using bird shot as well. It is very professional and demonstrates how birdshot is a poor choice for self defense.
    12 Gauge Birdshot For Home Defense??? - YouTube
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    In my opinion, he is correct about #4 buck at in home distances.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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    Bird shot doesn't even kill birds 100% of the time. I've seen enough evidence waterfowl hunting during the last 2 years.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    I used to really like his reviews... just lost a little love when he says "see there... 4" is good for self defense". Uh yeah, ok... that wouldn't even make it through my arm.

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