.357 SIG Ammo At The Range.

This is a discussion on .357 SIG Ammo At The Range. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The weather was bad, so we headed for the indoor range in Lewiston, Idaho on Saturday. ( http://www.diamondbackshooters.com/ ) Both Nancy and myself were able ...

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Thread: .357 SIG Ammo At The Range.

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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    .357 SIG Ammo At The Range.

    The weather was bad, so we headed for the indoor range in Lewiston, Idaho
    on Saturday. (http://www.diamondbackshooters.com/)
    Both Nancy and myself were able to handle some Gen 4 Glocks
    like the G19 for the first time.

    I wished they'd had a Baby Glock like a G26 or G27 so I could see what
    a Gen 4 Glock 33 is going to feel like, as I've been impressed with
    how the bigger Gen 4s fit my hand so far. I'm hoping that Glock
    will offer a Gen 4 G30 and G36 as well.

    During our time at the range, I shot some 147 gr. 9mm and also various .357 SIG loads.

    All ammo was from Double Tap ( Doubletapammo Shop) with a few Winchester and Speer rounds of 9mm thrown in as well,
    with the Win. White Box .357 sneaking into the range bag.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Gen 3 Glock 32 .357 SIG:

    Distance was 15 yards.

    I've been itching to at least shoot some DT 180 gr hardcast, but wanted to
    see what the DT 147 gr FMJ Flat Point ammo was like in comparison of recoil/blast and how it grouped against the DT hard cast 180.

    But firstly, I touched off 5 rounds of the DT 125 gr. Bonded Defense load with the very popular Speer Gold Dot bullet.

    Recoil and muzzle blast/report didn't seem to be much different than say Winchester 125 grain FMJ practice ammo. No great surprise for accuracy either.

    I'm no expert shot with a Glock, but didn't have much trouble printing a decent group When I concentrated on trigger control.

    The DT 125 GD is the very street proven Gold dot pushed a bit faster than the standard Speer loads, but seemingly not to the point of losing control or accuracy.

    I feel the same way about the Double Tap 125 gr. Sierra JHP that's also fun to shoot, and has a street proven bullet like the 125 Cor-Bon .357 SIG loading.

    I then loaded up 5 rounds of the DT 147 gr. Flat Point ammo and had about the same results..but less recoil and blast due to the 147s lower velocity.


    I must have been jerking on the trigger as my grouping wasn't so hot.
    Having shot this load and the DT 147 grain JHP before from this gun,
    I know I could have done better.

    Then came the moment that I'd been waiting weeks for.

    The first few of rounds of the DT 180 grain load was interesting.

    More smoke than normal DT loads and more noticed recoil by myself
    and Nancy who was to my right snapping pics.
    However, we were both Amazed at the accuracy!

    .357 SIG lovers will note that it's an often accurate round, but this
    stuff put them side by side when I did my job.
    Almost a cloverleaf group.. or I thought so at the time.
    About half way through, I stopped and said : "Do you see this?"

    She replied " Wow, it's very accurate!"

    I'd have to say that the DT 180 .357 SIG load is Probably the most
    accurate SIG load to date for me/us.

    Recoil and muzzle blast was about like shooting 180 gr. Blazer 10mm, but
    in a smaller package. I've shot hot 180 DT out of a CZ that kicked more.

    I have no doubt that it's astonishly accurate at 25 yards or so as well.

    THIS will be my woods walking .357 SIG load in the future!


    After being truly shocked- but very pleased by this performance..I loaded up some of the DT 115 gr. Nosler JHP rounds.

    I think I shot seven of them.
    You could notice the recoil and it was LOUDER than the other loads tested
    and also printed a decent sized group but not approaching the 180 gr. load.
    My groups showed vertical stringing, but again like the other loads
    not as much recoil as shooting a .40 Glock until you went to the
    180 grainer.

    A very fun time on a very stormy day.

    We were running late for dinner, so we packed and drove for home.

    I'm hoping to get out and shoot some more next month.

    Sorry about not having any chrono results but even if I had one- I'm sure that some people would dispute the numbers.

    More info on the 180 grain load and others:
    DoubleTap Ammunition

    KEV
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    Thanks for the very informative report.
    Glad you had a great/fun day.

    I have recently aqquired an M&Pc .357 sig and believe this round has something to it, that 9mm, .40, and to some degree .45 are missing.
    I don't know what it is though, but I believe in time, real shooting scenarios will begin to show that what they set out to do with this round(duplicate the performance of .357 mag) they have done.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    Yes, a wonderful gun. I sold my M&P357C to get the slimmer and lighter Shield.

    The compact had a much better trigger, and even in .357 SIG, didn't kick much at all.

    Be sure check out my .357 SIG pics.

    DOUBLE TAP 357 SIG pictures by czrami - Photobucket

    Have a great time with your nice S&W.
    www.czforum.com



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    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
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    Awesome. I just bought a Glock 33. Looking for a good carry round. I currently have Winchester Ranger T's. Which of those DT loads, if given a choice of 1 would you carry for SD? The 125 Sierra or the 125 bonded? I cant afford to send DT $100+
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    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    I going to get me some of that 180gr hardcast. Thank you for posting that. IMO Double Tap is good ammo.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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    U should not shoot hardcast through glock factory barrels
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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    yes, for those interested DT has an offer for 15% off code:152012GO until July 4th.

    The cast bullet is harder than lead (i believe) and one would think that limited use of it wouldn't
    lead up or harm your barrel. I only shot a bit of it, and detected No Leading when I cleaned the barrel.

    As stated, it is a little smokey when you shoot it though. I doubt if you would notice if animal
    was charging you.

    However, a Lone Wolf or other barrel might be better, but only you can be the deciding factor
    when buying or using any ammo or gun product.

    www.czforum.com



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    Member Array Walden's Avatar
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    hard cast bullets are not recommended for use in factory Glock barrels. Something about the polygonal rifling doesn't agree with them.
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    My Glock 30 has shown no more/no less leading than might be expected with any type rifling or caliber. My other handgun with poly rifling (a CZ-82), likewise, has shown no leading issues. The stuff legends (myths) are made of.
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  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    Hinkleid.

    myself and others have disscused this subject before.

    There are really 4 camps for .357 SIG these days.

    1. Traditional JHPs that mimic the original 125 grain .357 Magnum load that climbed to be the King of the street cartridge for
    Law Enforcement use some years ago.

    This would be what some call a fragmenting hollow-point, where the bullet hits the target and fragments into pieces while
    expanding a bit, but mostly sends off deadly secondary missles(or at least I've read) and has great stopping power.
    There have been a few dynamic shootings with the 125 gr. Sierra bullet as loaded by both Double Tap and Cor-Bon.

    You could also include the 147 grain .357 SIG loads like those from DT as well.

    Not much street data, but the same bullets in 9mm have stopped bad guys for decades.

    The .357 loads would be faster than 9mm, but slower than the lighter .357 loads.
    Lighter recoil and amazing accuracy are the real attributes of the 147 gr.

    2. A bonded JHP that the core and jacket do not separate and gives you excellent tactical penetration but also adequate
    expansion. An example would be the very street and highway proven Speer 125 grain Gold Dot that most LE use right now
    and also has the best stopping power record, but that's probably because it's been the top choice for issue.

    3. The new kid that's been around for a while.
    solid copper hollow-point know as the Barnes X-bullet or TAC-XP in most loadings.

    A lighter HP that has both excellent tactical penetration and perfect expansion, with resulting
    superb stopping power, at least in the 9mm version as the DPX from Cor-Bon. But using
    the same Barnes X bullet in the Double Tap TAC-XP.

    They seem to have lighter recoil than most other .357 SIG loads and shoot like a laser!

    4. offerings from other companies like Federal, Winchester, Remington and Hornady are out
    there as well but most of them a bonded JHP of some sort.

    You could call the Exotic rounds kind of a 5th camp, but most people don't use .357 SIG Glasers, or Air Defense rounds
    much._____________________________________________ __________________________________

    I personally think that in looking at all the testing done and ammo being suggested for
    LE or the armed civilian, the Barnes X bullet seems to be at the top in most cases.

    Although more expensive than most other bullets, it out performs them as well,
    and I think it's the Zenith in high performance carry ammo.


    I like Double Tap ammo for it's high velocity and wide variety of modern bullets/loads.
    And in my case, excellent quality control.

    In over 12 years, and around 8,000 rounds. I've had ONE bad round!
    A Gold Dot where part of the jacket had peeled off. Not a DT mistake, and I'm
    sure that the round would shoot fine. I keep it in my desk drawer.

    Anyhow,

    While I do think that any DT .357 personal defense load is a good one among others out there.

    My .357 SIG is loaded with the DT 115 grain TAC-XP at this time.


    Best of luck on deciding on which to purchase.

    KEV
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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    RE: 180 gr. 357 SIG.

    This is direct from Mike at Double Tap Ammo:



    "Kev,
    The 180gr WFNGC is specifically made for the Glocks. It uses the same style bullet that our 10mm 200gr WFNGC uses to minimalize leading and fouling.

    It is a great choice for any 357Sig pistol."


    I'm hoping get out and shoot some more of it.

    Quite a kick in the pants from a medium sized Glock!

    www.czforum.com



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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    How about the short barreled G27 conversion? Any recommendations for that? I have an extended ported barrel.
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

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    Nice write-up!

    However as far as recoil goes, according to the specs on the ammo boxes shown in the pics, the 125 gn and 147 gn bullets produce different energy levels. If there truly is a detectable difference in recoil, it would be because the 125 gn bullet has 13% more energy than the 147 gn bullet.
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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    Yes, most guys who shoot or carry the 147 .357 SIG will mention how much less recoil it has.

    For those guys who like 147 gr. 9mm loads and move up to the .357 SIG it's wonderful.

    I've really only trusted Double Tap 147 gr.+P in that weight and have carried it in my guns for years.

    this is when most bullets were not bonded and the 147 wasn't as a reliable expander as most of them are today.
    The extra DT "Oomph" in velocity always made me feel better.

    As for an extended barrel G27 conversion.

    The Double Tap 125 gr SIERRA load might be a good choice if you don't want to spend the money for
    the TAC-XP and don't need tactical penetration like a cop or highway patrolman.


    The Gold Dot known as the 125 Bonded defense would be better for that role according to some people.

    It is the king of .357 SIG shooting data so far.

    Again..I'm no expert, just like to experiment with the different loads, and glean info from others on defensive ammo.

    Thanks for listening.

    KEV
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    Distinguished Member Array clarkston_cz's Avatar
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    I always forget that there are 2 types of Speer Gold Dots in loaded ammo from Speer.

    One is the LP for limited penetration, the other for LE purposes, but the LP is only
    (reportedly) 20 fps slower than the LE version.

    The newer Personal Protection GOLD DOT load is rated:

    Muzzle velocity: 1350 fps
    Muzzle energy: 506 ft/lbs


    Double Tap's Bonded Defense 125 is a bit hotter.

    DT 125 gr. Bonded Defense-Gold Dot JHP.
    3.5" barrel - 1415fps
    4.5" barrel - 1525fps

    One Hot Tamale when you shoot it!

    As for the SIERRAs from both Cor-Bon and Double Tap, both are real screamers.

    Advertised numbers..

    CB:
    Muzzle velocity: 1425 fps
    Muzzle energy: 564 ft/lb

    DT: 1450fps / 584 ft. lbs. 4"bbl

    One guy chrono'd the DT 125 Sierra from his P229 @ 1,402 fps.



    This is an excellent video showing what happens to the frangible JHPs.

    Those 125 gr. grain jacket fragments are really nasty looking!

    357 SIG - Corbon Performance Match - 125 Gr. JHP Ammo test - YouTube
    www.czforum.com



    Go RED SOX!

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