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Which .380 ACP round would you go with?

  • Round Nose FMJ

    Votes: 12 7.6%
  • Flat Nose FMJ

    Votes: 21 13.4%
  • Remington Golden Saber

    Votes: 13 8.3%
  • Hornady Critical Defense

    Votes: 44 28.0%
  • Federal Hydra-Shok

    Votes: 18 11.5%
  • Speer Gold Dot

    Votes: 31 19.7%
  • Winchester PDX1

    Votes: 12 7.6%
  • Winchester Ranger T

    Votes: 6 3.8%

A poll, which .380 ACP round would you go with?

20K views 72 replies 34 participants last post by  emont504 
#1 ·
After compiling a little comparative list from ballistic tests done by a 'Youtuber' that uses a calibrated sim-test media block and four layers of denim as well as the same 3.5" barreled Bersa handgun for comparable results I would like to see what round you all would choose.

Listed are penetration depths and average expansion:

Round Nose FMJ: 19"+ Penetration
Flat Nose FMJ: 19"+ Penetration
Remington Golden Saber: 19"+ Penetration, (Did not expand)
Hornady Critical Defense: 11.25" Penetration, .436" Expansion
Federal Hydra-Shok: 10.25" Penetration, .474" Expansion
Speer Gold Dot: 10.25" Penetration, .517" Expansion
Winchester PDX1: 8.25" Penetration, .652" Expansion
Winchester Ranger T: 8" Penetration, .654" Expansion


So...which round would you choose and why?
 
#40 ·
Common handguns do not have enough "energy" to cause permanent wounding via the temporary stretch cavity. A handgun bullet needs to touch tissue in order to disrupt it. The whole "energy transfer" or "hydrostatic shock" thing has been fairly discredited.

Now, with high velocity rifle bullets - that is a different story.

Take a look at the sticky thread on this sub-forum on "Handgun stopping power." All handguns suck, compared to a long gun.

The FBI minimum for penetration is 12 inches, with 15 desired. IIRC, 18 inches is the maximum. I have yet to see the .380 JHP that gets 15 - most don't get 12. .380 FMJ, on the other hand, does OK...16-17 inches.

In the end, it does not matter much. There is so little difference in the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of handguns that the best you can do is hit the vitals, hit often, and hope for the best. Pick what you can carry all the time, and train so that you can make hits.
 
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#44 ·
The FBI minimum for penetration is 12 inches, with 15 desired. IIRC, 18 inches is the maximum. I have yet to see the .380 JHP that gets 15 - most don't get 12. .380 FMJ, on the other hand, does OK...16-17 inches.
In the TNoutdoors9 test using calibrated Sim-test with 4 layers of denim, both types of FMJ bullets completely passed through the 19" Sim-test blocks and penetrated multiple water jugs. If FMJs actually got 16-17" of penetration, it would not be as big of a deal to carry FMJ, but they get far more than that, and that's with mild target loads. I see people talking about carrying very hot FMJ loads or hardcast ball. NO. .380 Full Metal Jacket in Ballistic Gel - YouTube Excessive penetration? YES! Even for your almighty FBI protocol Mr. Agent sir.

A .380 does not need assistance in creating the smallest wound possible. Use an expanding bullet! 10" of penetration with a hot Gold Dot load is much closer to the goal of 12" penetration than FMJs get with well over 19". FMJs are for shooting paper. Banking on shooting through an assailant's arm to avoid excessive penetration is ridiculous.

True physical incapacitation comes from severing the CNS or causing enough damage to vital organs bringing blood loss, causing your assailant to collapse. In my opinion, a larger expanded bullet diameter and permanent wound cavity of a quality JHP is more likely to cause either of those than something leaving a nice, clean .355"ish hole through the body.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Hi Erichb327;

I'm not implying that you are willing to be irresponsible with your defensive carry but am using the comment as a jumping off point to call attention to an attitude that can undeniably be found on firearms forums. Those to whom it is directed know who they are.

I'm fine with use of expanding bullets with the ubiquitous hollow point. I think its value is, to some indeterminate extent, presented with enthusiasm that is excessive and in some cases unwarranted.

"There has to be some function hollow points are good for"

It would not be amiss to state that a considerable function of the hollow point is to sell ammunition.
 
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#49 ·
Hi Erichb327;

I'm not implying that you are willing to be irresponsible with your defensive carry but am using the comment as a jumping off point to call attention to an attitude that can undeniably be found on firearms forums. Those to whom it is directed know who they are.

I'm fine with use of expanding bullets with the ubiquitous hollow point. I think it's value is to some indeterminate extent, is presented with enthusiasm that is excessive and in some cases unwarranted.

"There has to be some function hollow points are good for"

It would not be amiss to state that a considerable function of the hollow point is to sell ammunition.
Thanks for the clarification.
 
#55 ·
I spent most of this Spring testing .380 in 2.5" - 2.8" barrels. I've not broken out the .380 from my other tests, but they are all here. Terminal Ballistics Tests - YouTube tnoutdoors9 was incredibly helpful and supportive when I was just getting started with SIM-TEST testing. I think he knew I was interested in short barrel tests and wasn't trying to replicate the work he had previously done with mid and service length barrels.

When the dust settled after testing a dozen different .380's, I can't say I was surprised to see Gold Dot, Hydra-Shok, and Critical Defense come out on top of the list for balanced expansion and penetration. I agree the 380 is marginal, but sometimes only marginal can be managed in what you happen to be wearing. My tests are for me, but I'm happy to share the results. That's one reason I use 2 layers of denim and not 4. My 380 is a Summer gun and when it's in the 90's every day, a T-shirt is more realistic than 4 layers of denim.

I ended up buying more of this for my personal use after reviewing all my results. It's not optimal performance, but it's better than leaving something larger at home.

 
#60 ·
Winchester Ranger t-series bonded is the same thing but half the price for twice the number of rounds.
 
#63 ·
Well I really kind of had my heart set on the Flat nose FMJ, with the Hydra-Shok coming in a close second.

Bought a .380 today and all the fun store had in a good defensive round for the .380 IMO was either round nose FMJ or Hydra-Shok's.

So the box of Hydra-Shok's it is until a place an order online I can throw some flat noses in with.
 
#64 ·
I have been shooting some .380 ammo into stuff just to see how the ammo I can buy locally
works when compared to each other in the same material.

I just use water jugs, bundles of pine planks, and dry magazine bundles; all stuff I can carry on
a bicycle to the shooting location.

I shot WWB and Federal FMJ. In SD ammo I shot golden Saber, PDX1, and zombie [zombie is really the
same as critical defense]

The best penetration was from GS followed by zombie-----3" in wood & 15/16" in the magazines.
With the water jug, zombie made the biggest splash and most dramatic jug upset.

The FMJ was ho hum with the WWB the best.

So I voted for critical defense.

I'm not under the illusion that .380 is powerful, but, it is better than nothing.
 
#67 · (Edited)
I use the Gold Dots JHP, for expansion, because my .380 is my up close & personal, last resort, get off me personal deterrent.
Do not believe .380 is sufficient for use as an EDC. There are too many options available with a platform more or less the same size as a .380 firearm, but using 9mm or even .45ACP, to have to use a .380. At the very least I'd rather carry a 9mm and it wouldn't be [appreciably] larger than the Bersa .380, if at all.
 
#68 ·
I agree that there are more potent weapons out there in a package about the size of a .380 but, in the last month, I know of at least three people that hve been killed with that caliber. One was the drunk teenager who shot himself in the head. Two others were a murder-suicide that took place here in Knoxville. So apparently, at close range, a .380 can still get the job done. I hate to use other people's tragedy for an example but shooting ballistic gel or steel plate doesn't replace the real thing.
 
#73 ·
Critical Defense gets my vote, however YMMV

I personally go with Hornady Critical Defense. My rational is that I want expansion, while sacraficing as little penetration and velocity as possible. I'm not basing this on any hard science, but logically I would assume that the critical defense is going to have the least amount of drag of all the defensive rounds, becuase it doesn't have an exposed cavity. However to be honest I don't just look at the type of round, but why I'm carrying a .380. It's small and lightweight! lol. So its a perfect "summer" gun when hot weather prohibits concealing a larger firearm. It stands to reason then that I'm not going to be engaging a subject that is wearing heavy clothing. So penetration is not much of a factor. That being said I've accepted a long time ago that the .380 is not the most proficient man stopper (you're not going to drop a guy with one round center of mass no matter what the loading.) So what it comes down to for me is: Carry what ever you are most accurate with, and practice rapid follow-up shots. :)
 
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