A poll, which .380 ACP round would you go with?

This is a discussion on A poll, which .380 ACP round would you go with? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Foo909 Now now let's not turn this into an argument. I realize the .380 ACP is a compromise. I have also listed ...

View Poll Results: Which .380 ACP round would you go with?

Voters
155. You may not vote on this poll
  • Round Nose FMJ

    11 7.10%
  • Flat Nose FMJ

    21 13.55%
  • Remington Golden Saber

    13 8.39%
  • Hornady Critical Defense

    44 28.39%
  • Federal Hydra-Shok

    18 11.61%
  • Speer Gold Dot

    31 20.00%
  • Winchester PDX1

    11 7.10%
  • Winchester Ranger T

    6 3.87%
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 73
Like Tree34Likes

Thread: A poll, which .380 ACP round would you go with?

  1. #31
    sgb
    sgb is offline
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    You don't need to know
    Posts
    2,414
    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    Now now let's not turn this into an argument.

    I realize the .380 ACP is a compromise. I have also listed the poll in descending order from more penetration to less. It seems that it runs in the least expansion to most as well. This will give me an idea of what is more important to the end user.

    My current favorites are the flat nose FMJ's or the Hydra-Shok's. I can't make my mind up 100% either way. Really wishing they manufactured a soft point type .380 that would expand to about .45 and get a 12". I don't think the critical defense will feed properly in what I'm going to use.
    Flat nose FMJ's were what I voted on. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=217

    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,973
    Plain old WWB 95 gr FMJ-FP in my LCPs. Check out the tests at GoldenLoki, done with a P3at through 2 layers of denim into gel...17 inches of penetration. I see no need to spend the money on the BB stuff - .380 ammo is expensive enough as it is. I can fire enough of the WWB ammo to establish reliability without breaking the bank.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,416
    For those that chose the higher penetrating loads; do you fear over penetration?
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  5. #34
    sgb
    sgb is offline
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    You don't need to know
    Posts
    2,414
    For those who fear over penetration how many think they'll never miss under stress?
    bmcgilvray and OD* like this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern AZ
    Posts
    971
    When I'm out jogging and carry my LCP it has Golden Sabers in it, one of the heavier .380 bullets you can find. Oddly I feel just as confident with my LCP as I do my G26 or G19, not sure why, just do.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  7. #36
    Member Array ampre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    37
    +1 for Buffalo Bore. I carry a mag of their JHP and another of their Hardcast FN when I carry my BG380.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,416
    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    For those who fear over penetration how many think they'll never miss under stress?
    I think about it! Aside from training under stressful situations, how could we replicate a defensive scenario? It is something to think and worry about. Would I be as accurate in a real world scenario? Probably not.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,973
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    For those that chose the higher penetrating loads; do you fear over penetration?
    No.

    Consider that an attacker will likely have his arms outstretched towards you, holding a weapon or fists. Your bullet likely needs to go through hands/arms before even getting to the torso.

    My understanding is that the skin on the far side is fairly tough and elastic, equivalent to several inches of gel.

    Especially in a .380, I am not too concerned about overpenetration. Indeed, you might even consider the .380 FMJ an ideal (gasp!) civilian defensive round, because it has enough penetration, but little risk of too much. You are not dependent upon expansion (which does not always happen) to lessen the overpenetration risk, like you are with other calibers.

    I know - blasphemy - to call the .380 ideal. Whatever...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,416
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    No.

    Consider that an attacker will likely have his arms outstretched towards you, holding a weapon or fists. Your bullet likely needs to go through hands/arms before even getting to the torso.

    My understanding is that the skin on the far side is fairly tough and elastic, equivalent to several inches of gel.

    Especially in a .380, I am not too concerned about overpenetration. Indeed, you might even consider the .380 FMJ an ideal (gasp!) civilian defensive round, because it has enough penetration, but little risk of too much. You are not dependent upon expansion (which does not always happen) to lessen the overpenetration risk, like you are with other calibers.

    I know - blasphemy - to call the .380 ideal. Whatever...
    I choose less penetrating expanding loads for their higher Kinetic energy and wound cavity, I think 10 inches of penetration is sufficient for me. I follow your reasoning though about traveling through hands and arms.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,973
    Common handguns do not have enough "energy" to cause permanent wounding via the temporary stretch cavity. A handgun bullet needs to touch tissue in order to disrupt it. The whole "energy transfer" or "hydrostatic shock" thing has been fairly discredited.

    Now, with high velocity rifle bullets - that is a different story.

    Take a look at the sticky thread on this sub-forum on "Handgun stopping power." All handguns suck, compared to a long gun.

    The FBI minimum for penetration is 12 inches, with 15 desired. IIRC, 18 inches is the maximum. I have yet to see the .380 JHP that gets 15 - most don't get 12. .380 FMJ, on the other hand, does OK...16-17 inches.

    In the end, it does not matter much. There is so little difference in the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of handguns that the best you can do is hit the vitals, hit often, and hope for the best. Pick what you can carry all the time, and train so that you can make hits.
    Foo909 likes this.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  12. #41
    Member Array texasKA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    183
    LCP w/ hornady critical defense.

  13. #42
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,079
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    For those that chose the higher penetrating loads; do you fear over penetration?
    No. One is constrained to consider the background, no matter what sort of bullet he is about to unleash, and no matter what are the circumstances that have reduced him to shooting in defense. Such considerations must become habit, foremost on his mind as he commits to carrying, well in advance of any situation that might present itself.

    We all need to get over this notion that somehow the use of expanding bullets will save us from over-penetration concerns. Bullets have a way of "going their own way" to rip off the Fleetwood Mac "Rumors" CD that's playing in the background just now. A bullet unleashed can't be depended on to behave in any particular way. They shouldn't be expected to all be perfect mushrooms under the hide on the off side of an assailant. They might actually not open up as dependably as we see when we gaze approvingly at the blue-jean covered jello tests. They might deflect while traversing an assailant due to striking bone, an item in a pocket, or "just because." There's a lot of possible damage contained within a bullet between the time it begins it's launch down a gun barrel and the time it comes to rest, spent.

    Some comments on forums about using "expanding" bullets in order to obviate over-penetration concerns are concerning in themselves. It makes one wonder if some folks are so unthinking that they would fire at an assailant in a crowded park, shopping mall, city sidewalk, etc., secure in the mistaken notion that their bullets will all be hits and their bullets will all behave themselves and stay put in the assailant. We're not going to get a pass, nor should we, when our bullet, intended to lay an assailant low in a righteous shooting, either passes through or goes astray and mains or kills an innocent.

    Personal responsibility is attached to every cartridge loaded into a handgun before carrying it out into the great, wide world. It bears much more thought than is put into it.
    Foo909 and BamaT like this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,416
    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Some comments on forums about using "expanding" bullets in order to obviate over-penetration concerns are concerning in themselves. It makes one wonder if some folks are so unthinking that they would fire at an assailant in a crowded park, shopping mall, city sidewalk, etc., secure in the mistaken notion that their bullets will all be hits and their bullets will all behave themselves and stay put in the assailant. We're not going to get a pass, nor should we, when our bullet, intended to lay an assailant low in a righteous shooting, either passes through or goes astray and mains or kills an innocent.

    Personal responsibility is attached to every cartridge loaded into a handgun before carrying it out into the great, wide world. It bears much more thought than is put into it.
    So you are you saying because I consider over penetration I am willing to shoot blindly into a crowd because I choose expanding rounds for more kinetic energy and less penetration? It is true you can't rely on bullets expanding or continuing on their original course every time. Why do we choose hollow points then? Some say kinetic energy is not a factor, your argument that shooters will disregard protocol because they carry hollow points and hollow points don't have enough penetration.

    There has to be some function hollow points are good for.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  15. #44
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Western WA/Rexburg, ID
    Posts
    310
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    The FBI minimum for penetration is 12 inches, with 15 desired. IIRC, 18 inches is the maximum. I have yet to see the .380 JHP that gets 15 - most don't get 12. .380 FMJ, on the other hand, does OK...16-17 inches.
    In the TNoutdoors9 test using calibrated Sim-test with 4 layers of denim, both types of FMJ bullets completely passed through the 19" Sim-test blocks and penetrated multiple water jugs. If FMJs actually got 16-17" of penetration, it would not be as big of a deal to carry FMJ, but they get far more than that, and that's with mild target loads. I see people talking about carrying very hot FMJ loads or hardcast ball. NO. .380 Full Metal Jacket in Ballistic Gel - YouTube Excessive penetration? YES! Even for your almighty FBI protocol Mr. Agent sir.

    A .380 does not need assistance in creating the smallest wound possible. Use an expanding bullet! 10" of penetration with a hot Gold Dot load is much closer to the goal of 12" penetration than FMJs get with well over 19". FMJs are for shooting paper. Banking on shooting through an assailant's arm to avoid excessive penetration is ridiculous.

    True physical incapacitation comes from severing the CNS or causing enough damage to vital organs bringing blood loss, causing your assailant to collapse. In my opinion, a larger expanded bullet diameter and permanent wound cavity of a quality JHP is more likely to cause either of those than something leaving a nice, clean .355"ish hole through the body.

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post

    There has to be some function hollow points are good for.
    Ripping big holes through vital organs.
    ericb327 likes this.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

380 flat nose fmj
,
380 hydra shok review
,

federal hydra shok 380 review

,

hornady critical defense 380

,

hornady critical defense 380 review

,
hydra shok 380 reviews
,

pdx1 380

,

remington golden saber 380

,
speer gold dot vs hornady critical defense 380
,

winchester pdx1 380

,

winchester pdx1 380 ammo

,
winchester pdx1 380 ammo for sale
Click on a term to search for related topics.