How potent is Corbon's 9mm-115+P??

This is a discussion on How potent is Corbon's 9mm-115+P?? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Cat-O-Matic Here's a video link to a shooting test of Corbon's 115+P jhp: Cor-Bon 115gr 9mm JHP +P - Ammo Test - ...

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Thread: How potent is Corbon's 9mm-115+P??

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-O-Matic View Post
    Here's a video link to a shooting test of Corbon's 115+P jhp:

    Cor-Bon 115gr 9mm JHP +P - Ammo test - YouTube
    I guess if you're more interested in what the Utoob kommandoes have to say about it than actual scientific testing, there's nothing more that needs to be said.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuda66 View Post
    i guess if you're more interested in what the utoob kommandoes have to say about it than actual scientific testing, there's nothing more that needs to be said.
    then say no more!

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    You have that wrong. It was not made up, Evan is an honorable man and protected his sources who may have gotten in trouble for sharing the information. It mostly coincides with what I saw in three decades on the street. Junk science, thats funny. Global Warming is junk science, M&S is the collection and analysis of information. Trusting your life to only shooting jello is applicable if you ever get attacked by the blob. The study you linked is interesting, in that, he tested 1 load for 38 and one for 357 magnum (which was a mid level load) and drew his conclusion from that for these calibers. He tested 16 loads for the 9mm, hmm.
    No one is saying that Ed Sanow is some sort of liar or something, and no one is saying he shouldn't protect his sources, and no one is saying that M&S didn't collect and analyse information on shootings. What people are, and will continue to keep saying is that HOW they analysed it was incorrect. Take this for example, much of their data came from police shootings, and at the time many/most officers used 9mm. So when your largest data pool is trained police forces, who mostly used 9mm, don't you think that 9mm might show up as one of the most successful calibers? Selection bias. I think their work was done with good intentions but there are some quirks.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    No one is saying that Ed Sanow is some sort of liar or something, and no one is saying he shouldn't protect his sources, and no one is saying that M&S didn't collect and analyse information on shootings. What people are, and will continue to keep saying is that HOW they analysed it was incorrect. Take this for example, much of their data came from police shootings, and at the time many/most officers used 9mm. So when your largest data pool is trained police forces, who mostly used 9mm, don't you think that 9mm might show up as one of the most successful calibers? Selection bias. I think their work was done with good intentions but there are some quirks.
    Their statistics were made-up.
    The Marshall & Sanow "Data" - Statistical Analysis Tells the Ugly Story

    I originally bought all their books and believed them. Silly me. Then I ran across the debunkings on Firearmstacical.com and actually put together the spreadsheets myself (using the numbers from their books) and ran the analyses. Pure fabrication. Statistical fabrications. Pure bunk. Made up.

    Anyone who cites Marshall and Sanow as credible sources is in turn not credible.

    Sorry if this is new information to anyone.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcclarke View Post
    Their statistics were made-up.
    The Marshall & Sanow "Data" - Statistical Analysis Tells the Ugly Story

    I originally bought all their books and believed them. Silly me. Then I ran across the debunkings on Firearmstacical.com and actually put together the spreadsheets myself (using the numbers from their books) and ran the analyses. Pure fabrication. Statistical fabrications. Pure bunk. Made up.


    Anyone who cites Marshall and Sanow as credible sources is in turn not credible.

    Sorry if this is new information to anyone.
    That's what I said isn't it? I've never heard the actual shootings they used were made up, just that the way they analyzed and developed stats based upon those shootings were incorrect.

    I hear great things about the DPX round.
    "Brilliant. So now we got a huge guy theory, and a serial crusher theory. Top notch. What's your name?" - Paul Smecker

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    That's what I said isn't it?
    Yes. I'm agreeing with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    I've never heard the actual shootings they used were made up, just that the way they analyzed and developed stats based upon those shootings were incorrect.
    I concur.
    Last edited by marcclarke; July 3rd, 2012 at 01:48 AM. Reason: Messed up the quote on the first try.

  8. #22
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    You have that wrong. It was not made up, Evan is an honorable man and protected his sources who may have gotten in trouble for sharing the information. It mostly coincides with what I saw in three decades on the street. Junk science, thats funny. Global Warming is junk science, M&S is the collection and analysis of information.
    The Marshall & Sanow "Data" - Statistical Analysis Tells the Ugly Story


    Trusting your life to only shooting jello is applicable if you ever get attacked by the blob. The study you linked is interesting, in that, he tested 1 load for 38 and one for 357 magnum (which was a mid level load) and drew his conclusion from that for these calibers. He tested 16 loads for the 9mm, hmm.

    To the OP those 115 +P Corbons are duplicates of the old Illinois State Police load which set the standard. The US Border Patrol used an identical load (9BPLE) for agents who carried 9mm's when it was allowed. It worked VERY well. It was better that the 110 Grn 357 magnum load and almost as good ast the 125 grain 357 magnum load in actual shootings.
    The loads listed are the ones which passed the FBI protocol, not the only ones tested as is your premise. For me verifiable science conducted and recognized by the leading experts in terminal ballistics trump anecdotal evidence each and every time.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  9. #23
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-O-Matic View Post
    then say no more!
    Seems you posted looking for validation of a conclusion you have already made. However rejecting information that contradicts what you want to be true doesn't negate it's validity. While unscientific backyard amateur testing of ammunition using chickens and water jugs may be entertaining it's not the type of testing I'd be willing to bet my life on.

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

    You might notice that the list does NOT include any lightweight bullets with the exception of the Barnes 115gr version. The reason - especially if you've read the beginning of this article - should be clear already, but Doctor Roberts sums it up nicely as well: "With the exception of the Barnes 115 gr XPB all copper projectile, in general, most 9 mm 115 gr loads have demonstrated greater inconsistency, insufficient penetration, poor intermediate barrier capability, and failure to expand in denim testing than other 9mm bullets. For those individuals wanting to use lighter weight, supersonic 9 mm’s, I think a better alternative than the vast majority of 115 gr loads is to use the slightly heavier 124 to 127 gr bullets or the Barnes 115 gr all copper bullet"
    Cuda66 likes this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    I chronographed the Cor-Bon 115 gr. 9mm +P out of a little Kahr PM9 a couple of years ago, averaged 1,215 fps / 377# KE
    The Federal 115 gr. +P+ only averaged 1,149 fps / 337# KE
    Winchester Ranger T 124 gr. +P averaged 1,094 fps 329# KE
    The Cor-Bon load was clearly more powerful (in KE) than the two loads intended for law enforcement.
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    No problem guys.

    I know what works. I am not saying the +P+ 115 grain 9mm is the greatest, I am just saying there are worse things to use. To be quite frank I am no 9mm fan, I do not agree with everything M&S or Dr Roberts say. I am no fan of the FBI protocols either.

    The fact is that in a lethal encounter, your bullet is a small part of the equation. For myself I prefer big and fast, which goes against light and fast/big and slow followers. I have petted the elephant, and I carry the most powerful gun I can conceal and shoot well, right now that happens to be a Glock 23 loaded with 155 grn HST's backed up by a S&W 640 Pro loaded with Corbon 125 grn DPX. Some people say I have an overactive imagination or I am paranoid, no I have seen first hand the evil that men do and am prepared to meet it head on. If I lived where I could not use hollow points I would carry a S&W 629 loaded with LSWC's, or a Serbu super shorty with 1oz Foster slugs.

    The trick is to have enough gun, I have seen numerous people shot with 38's 22's, 25's, 32's and 380's that were unimpressed. Although some later died, or had very serious complications such as internal bleeding, toxemia all those thing that go wrong when you get shot. One of my friends survived an off duty ambush and was shot three times with 380 silvertips, one went thru his chest, striking his scapula, shattering it. He was able to hit one of the BG's with a 125 38+P who left the scene. The BG showed up at a hospital 90 miles away 3 days later and left after the ER called the cops. Another was shot in the leg by a 380 FMJ which shattered his femur.

    Some people may dislike hearing a report or account of an incident, but it is how facts are recorded. I dislike the term "anecdote" as it is not accurate in this context.

  12. #26
    sgb
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    You're not the only one to have "petted the elephant" as you put it. The FBI protocol only predicts those rounds that will most likely preform well in actual shootings and so far it's got a pretty impressive track record in those predictions. Anecdotal information is "singular" and often tainted with personal prejudice or perception and hence not overly trustworthy in drawing general conclusions. Just my .02
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  13. #27
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    Just get some Gold Dot 124's and be done.

  14. #28
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    And don't forget shot placement. Your super-fast light weight bullet, or your sloooow heavy weight bullet doesn't do anything if you miss.
    Your defensive plan needs to be more then just a handgun.
    I have had three occasions where I thought the "elephant" was close(I'm not sure what the elephant has to do with anything, but it sounds cool) two of them I was TDY in other states and had no handgun availability. Now what?
    --Jason--

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Anecdotal information is "singular" and often tainted with personal prejudice or perception and hence not overly trustworthy in drawing general conclusions.
    I must have missed it. I gave 2 factual accounts, explain to me how the facts reported could be tainted or prejudiced. I was there.
    What is there to perceive differently?

    I already stated I do not like the term anecdote, there is nothing humorous here and it certainly is not for anyone's entertainment.

  16. #30
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    I must have missed it. I gave 2 factual accounts, explain to me how the facts reported could be tainted or prejudiced. I was there.
    What is there to perceive differently?

    I already stated I do not like the term anecdote, there is nothing humorous here and it certainly is not for anyone's entertainment.
    anecdotal
    adj
    containing or consisting exclusively of anecdotes rather than connected discourse or research conducted under controlled conditions
    Not doubting your factual accounts however like it or not they are "anecdotal" accounts as the facts are related as perceived by you. Anecdotal evidence, much like eye witness testimony is highly unreliable. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

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