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Why Is the .40 S&W So Beat Up On These Days?

110K views 546 replies 178 participants last post by  Struckat 
#1 ·
What's the deal with the .40 S&W lately? Are shooters a fickle lot or what? The .40 S&W can't seem to get any love on the forums and this after a time not so long past when all and sundry embraced it as the next great thing. It's obvious that it is currently trendy to bash the .40 S&W on several of the forums. It's: "too weak," "kicks too hard," "is too expensive," "doesn't do anything the 9mm can't do," doesn't do anything the .45 ACP can't do," and "no one apparently ever asked a question" that the .40 S&W answers, to hear hear the many detractors of late tell it.

I don't have a .40 S&W but have long thought I'd like one. Just to play with, handload for, and learn about. One of the original .40 Smith & Wesson all-steel automatics or else a Browning Hi-Power in .40 would do for me. Even back before 10mm or .40 S&W came out I used to handload .38-40 ammunition while thinking how keen it would be to have a modern pistol chambered for a .40 bullet. I've shot other folks' .40 S&W pistols over the years and it's a great round. I'm still going to get a "round tuit" one of these days and add a .40 S&W to the handguns around here.

With the .40, the bullet diameter looks good, the bullet weight range has appeal, and velocities across that weight range appear effective. I have several 9mm pistols and while that cartridge is fully adequate, given a good load, it is mundane and ho-hum in my opinion.


Some answers the .40 S&W could be said to have regarding the claims made against it.


-It'll never be weaker than the 9mm.

-It doesn't kick too hard unless one is awfully recoil sensitive or else is a disciple of "spray&pray." .40 shot recovery time is overstressed.

-Cost is relative. There's not much difference in the overall scheme of things, and the handloader easily circumvents the cost factor.

-It slings heavier, larger diameter bullets than the 9mm for a start.

-Pistols can be had with a higher ammo capacity in .40 than may be stuffed in most .45s.

-I for one, asked the question of "why not a .40" back in the 1970s so "the answer to the question that no one asked" doesn't cut it.


It's certain that I'm not the only one who thought it'd be just a pretty good idea. In fact, I think the 9mm ought to suffer a bit from competition with the .40 S&W in the marketplace. A .40 appears to be a thoughtful choice rather than just jumping on the bandwagon with the crowd. If I had to be shut up in a darkened room with a mad gorilla I know which one I'd pick and "9" would be conspicuous by its absence from the caliber designation.

Anyway, the .40 S&W looks like it might just be the best pistol cartridge I never had.
 
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#237 ·
With 9 and 45 on hand, I had no use for a 40. A friend has a xdm 40 and I find it difficult for me to shoot.

I wanted a 357sig and bought a Steyr m40a1 with the intent of converting it. But shooting the 40 in the Steyr is a very different experience than the xdm 40. It is very easy to shoot and my follow up shots are darn near as fast as my PPQ 9mm. Accuracy wise I am better with it than my 9 and almost as good as my former 1911s.

Currently not having any 1911s is unrelated to getting the 40cal. I am just "Between" 1911s.

Furthermore, my revolver distraction has put the 357sig barrel on the way back burner, and the 40 gets alot of range and carry time.
 
#251 ·
#245 ·
Some folks don't "get the .40" others do- those who do own at least one - so many LEO carry them daily (and use them to the desired result(s) when need be- seems to speak volumes IMHO YOMV
 
#246 ·
When 9mm & .45 acp were the primary caliber alternatives in defensive autoloaders, there was also trends toward women being considered (recruited?) for frontline LEO duty & a desire toward higher mag capacity. Women's hand size and upper body strength made the hi-cap .45 a (pardon the pun) "handful" to these new shooters. The .40 S&W was developed to answer the concerns of capacity, grip size, recoil & stopping power. IMHO, it's a fine compromise that met several specific criteria. There is NO CALIBER that isn't a compromise of some sort. Can you imagine a .50 BMG...J-frame?
 
#247 ·
This morning I emailed Hornaday and asked how R&D arrived at 175gr as optimal bullet weight for Critical Duty flex tip rounds.
This afternoon they emailed back and respectfully declined to share that info, stating it is proprietary, etc...and assuring me that they are convinced that is THE best weight for Critical Duty bullet expansion and penetration.

Good enough, but I'd still like to know WHY it's "best" for that bullet when most ballistics intel suggests that lighter bullets seem to be "better" overall.

Anyone care to fill me in? I figure someone here on DC knows.
Thanks in advance!

Sent from phone.
 
#248 ·
Not saying I know, but I would think it is because you are comparing a conventional bullet design in the 155/165 to a polymer tipped bullet design in which the polymer tip is a integral part of the bullets ability to perform, relying less on hydrostatic pressure to open the bullet, and more on impact that forcES the bullet to open via driving the polymer tip in to it.
Think of splitting wood with a wedge.
 
#250 ·
I bought a Springfield XD-40 4" bi-tone Service model not long after Springfield first started selling it as the rebranded HS2000. I'm guessing 2004 or 2005. I bought it in .40 because the .45 wasn't out yet, and the 9mm ammo wasn't anything special at the time. The XD fit my hand perfectly. It just "felt right". I had never fired a .40 before, and the caliber I had the most recent experience with was the .357Sig out of my friend's Glock G32. Compared to my limited semiauto experience, the .40 felt fine compared to the .357Sig.

Fast forward to today. I still have that XD-40 and carry it regularly. I shoot it VERY well, but I've had thousands of rounds through it without one single malfunction, both fmj and jhp. The other carry gun in my rotation is an Airweight 642 I load with Gold Dot 135gr+p short barrel rounds. Not a light recoiling round. Again, the .40 feels fine in comparison. I have no problem with quick follow up shots. I've been through several advanced training courses with the XD where I shot 500-700 rounds on a weekend and didn't have a problem. Personally, I like the idea of a big, heavy, relatively quick 180 grain jhp round for defense.

Now, having said that, I'm shopping for a 1911... :image035:

Cheers!
 
#252 ·
Best 40S&W EDC

Why I chose PX4 Storm Compact

When searching for a 40 cal Compact I searched for 2 months and saw the PX4 Storm Compact many times in shops and on the web but never really considered it and didn’t see a lot of talk about them. When I thought my search was over and made my decision I started to look at it more closely. I now believe it is the best 40 cal in compact size out there. Although the PX4 compact in 9mm is still a great gun I can’t say it’s the best 9mm in compact.

The PX4 Storm Compact is the best compact gun in 40 cal hands down. We all know most people won’t consider a 40 cal for EDC. Since all my guns are in other calibers I wanted to get one in 40 so I could have all the major calibers. In my search for the best 40 cal compact the PX4 handles the 40 round leaps and bounds better than any compact gun out there. It took me a long time to track down and try all the major brands in 40. Keep in mind I am talking about compact size in 40. Outside of the PX4 Compact it’s my opinion that chambering 40 in compact or subcompact is not ideal for EDC due to muzzle flip considering target acquisition and double taps. Most of my guns are for the purpose of carrying so most are compact to subcompact in size.
This gun is the softest shooting 40 cal that lends to awesome double taps in 40. Recoil is like shooting a +P+ 147 grain 9mm. This is all because of the rotating barrel technology. This gun is flat shooting and extremely accurate.

Top reasons I believe I overlooked the PX4 Storm Compact

1st reason most people overlook the PX4 Compact mostly because it’s too futuristic looking and looks different due to the rounded butt of the slide. I believe they designed it that way to minimize printing and bring extra comfort to carrying IWB. It actually carry’s extraordinarily more comfortable than some of the subcompact guns I carry IWB. In fact, if I know I will have a long day carrying I usually carry the PX4 due to long comfort.

2nd reason people skip right over considering the PX4 Compact is all the specs you look up online talk about how thick the gun is at 1.4”. Actually if you remove the decocker levers and install the stealth versions the gun is much slimmer. If we are talking overall thickness of the gun itself it is only 1.125” thick when excluding the stock decocker levers. So the gun is pretty standard thickness for its relative size. Also replacing the bat wing like decocker levers with the slim ones makes racking the slide great. This gun is awesome because when you’re holding it in your hand it feels like a full size gun but is truly compact. Obviously it’s on the larger size for compact category but it’s more comfortable to carry than most, and conceals far better than most guns in its same category, because of it’s rounded off edges.

3rd Lots of gun channels talk about great triggers vs bad triggers. This is subjective. My definition of a great trigger is different than what other gun experts believe is a great trigger. For example most gun experts on these channels shoot in competitions. If I were saying a great trigger has a smooth 2.5 – 3.5 lbs pull I would agree with that if I was shooting in a competition. Since high stress self-defense situations occur unexpectedly putting you in an intense situation where your adrenaline is going, I would not suggest a 3 lbs trigger pull. My ideal trigger weight for carry is minimum 7 lbs DA and then 4.5 in SA. That just my preference. That is why I love the PX4 Compact which matches those specs perfectly. You can also half caulk the PX4 hammer to lighten the first DA pull. Again I love that you have options with this gun.

Height is only 5” (perfect grip size) to include pinky. I won’t consider an EDC gun that has anything over a 5” height to minimize printing.

My modifications include Cerakote, Talon Grips, 92FS Style slimed decocker levers, Trijicon Night Sights, added slim slide catch and removed right side slide catch

Easiest takedown I’ve seen in any gun.

If I didn’t live in Ca I would opt for decocker only G version stealth levers.

Firearm Gun Trigger Gun barrel Starting pistol
Firearm Gun Trigger Starting pistol Gun accessory
Gun Firearm Trigger Starting pistol Airsoft gun
 
#253 · (Edited)
Forty caliber is a damn fine choice for defensive purposes; the bullets do their job very well, the recoil is milder than .45 (not that .45 recoil is bad) making for quick follow up shots, and the ammo capacity is quite good. .40S&W has excellent penetrating qualities and the terminal performance proven by LE experience with the caliber is substantial. All-in-all, forty is fabulous in my view.

My favorite pistols for carry and defensive use are the M&P40, M&P40 Compact, SIG P320 40 Full size, and SIG P320 40 Compact. Sweet, sweet, sweet!
 
#254 ·
Forty caliber is a damn fine choice for defensive purposes; the bullets do their job very well, the recoil is milder than .45 (not that .45 recoil is bad) making for quick follow up shots, and the ammo capacity is quite good.

My favorite pistols for carry and defensive use are the M&P40, M&P40 Compact, SIG P320 40 Full size, and SIG P320 40 Compact. Sweet, sweet, sweet!
I like my P226, P99, P30, M&P all in 40. The only reason I ditched my G23 was the grip angle.
 
#255 ·
After reading the history of the forty caliber Smith and Wesson, its inception, causes, the people involved in creating it, I decided to dive into that caliber back in 2014.
At the same time, I fell in love with the Beretta PX-4 SC.

I've never been sorry.

This year I'm thinking about getting a full sized Beretta PX-4 in the same caliber.

Stand Tall, Speak Truth, Never Surrender
 
#256 ·
The .40 is only crapped on because people latch on to media reports about cops ditching it and then get this stupid mentality of cop bullet/caliber means best bullet/caliber without it getting through their head that most of this stuff is financial followed by qualifying scores. If you want a caliber that is decent for barrier penetration and pretty good at dealing with the human body, and you don't want to deal with playing Easter egg hunt with 10mm and .357SIG, the .40 is what you'll be looking at.
 
#259 ·
I was a bit apprehensive about buying my G23, because I'd never shot a .40 and everybody complained about controllability. After shooting it, I don't really get the complaints - I'm not an expert shooter or anything, but it felt like a minor difference from 9mm, for me.

Things I like about .40:

1. It has pretty high momentum. Many talk up 9mm because it's supposedly easier to shoot well, but even if that's true, good shot placement is only good if the bullet stays on the path it started on. Momentum is what keeps a bullet on its path, and .40 is comparable to .357 Magnum and .45 ACP in this regard, and a good 30% higher in momentum than 9mm. The effects of this are invisible when shooting blocks of gel, but watch videos where hard surfaces (like heavy bone or auto glass) are hit at an angle, and you can see .40 keeping a straighter path.
2. Expanding bullets are great, but I still haven't found any stats on how likely modern JHP is to expand in real shootings. If a bullet doesn't expand, I'd prefer the 25% greater cross-sectional area of .40 over 9mm.
3. Pretty much every .40 FMJ you'll find is a flatnose. If one's supply of JHP ever dries up, flatnose FMJ is far preferable to roundnose for any practical purpose, IMHO.

None of this is to bash 9mm, as it's a perfectly decent round, but I think the assertion that "9mm is just as good" in terms of terminal ballistics is based on a lot of questionable assumptions.
 
#266 ·
If it's not acceptable to rehash a thread, or submit similar topics I'm sure this forum is destined for total failure. Not everyone is a internet guru. It wasn't un til I was 9 years old when we had electricity. It was 3 years later we had indoor plumbing. The telephone came later and it was a party line. You picked up the phone and spoke to an operator to dial your number. There was no way since the phone at the time had no way to dial, there was no dial pad.

You youngsters are are spoiled by the technology we didn't have.

ETA, Suger Bush was the last community to receive power in Arkansas.
 
#274 ·
I have to admit that even an old revolver die hard like me is considering a G20 to replace my GP100. After looking at a lot of ballistics and then carrying a Glock as my EDC my faith in the platform has come a long way. Lighter, more capacity and I can shoot it faster and more accurately (sad to say ). Its all the same reasons the G43 replaced my SP101 and 38 special. That and I read of quite a few people who shoot 40 out of the G20 with no mods and it seems perfectly reliable if you wanted to plink cheaper?
 
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