Why Is the .40 S&W So Beat Up On These Days?

This is a discussion on Why Is the .40 S&W So Beat Up On These Days? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; True, but likewise, it doesn't exactly back up the fact of needing x bullet at y diameter and z penetration test either. Penetration is the ...

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Thread: Why Is the .40 S&W So Beat Up On These Days?

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    True, but likewise, it doesn't exactly back up the fact of needing x bullet at y diameter and z penetration test either.

    Penetration is the king, and the 9, 40 and 45 are all more than up to the task at hand. No right or wrong, just whatever your own perception of necessary is.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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  3. #92
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I have never had a .40 but from what I have read it does fill a need solely because of the fact it is used in an autoloader. My reasoning is that with semi-autos it is hard to go very far in adjusting a load to fit a particular need. To much tinkering and the platform it is shot out of will cease to function. This forces a person to have to change cartridges instead of altering the load. This creates an opening for similar but slightly different cartridges for the semi-auto platform.

    In revolvers we do not have that limitation and can make our cartridges perform in a wider range. For instance I never understood a need for the .41 magnum. I could make my 44 mags do anything a 41 mag could do and more. Thats not so easy to do when limited by the semi-auto platform. You need more different auto cartridges to match what a single cartridge in a revolver can do.

    Michael

  4. #93
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    True, but likewise, it doesn't exactly back up the fact of needing x bullet at y diameter and z penetration test either.
    That is the basis for my distrust of jello testing. First of all anything that cannot be recreated in the lab the will not use, like psychological reasons for ending the fight, "Oh man this hurts".

    The loads with a proven record on the street for being the best fight stoppers do poorly in jello testing. The FBI protocols were developed with the aid of Fackler and the IWBA, who sought to make themselves the underwriters Lab of ballistics and cash in. This did not do well with people in the know who looked at their data and disagreed, that is why the IWBA is no more, no funding. Even the medical community cannot agree on these factors that the IWBA state are fact.

    Doctor Gary Roberts claims to know how jello testing equate to field studies, I am sorry but Doctor Roberts medical background is as a dentist. Anyone who knows anything about scientific research will tell you the best laboratory is field study ie; how does our theory work in the real world.

    Sorry to have strayed, but, every time jello testing comes up to "prove" anything but a pretty mushroom my BS meter pegs out.

  5. #94
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Dr. Roberts doesn't claim anything based upon his medical background.

    All reports that I've read are based on his extensive personal research.

    I'm not saying that his research is conclusive, but we cannot discredit him based on his professional experience when it's irrelevant to his research.

    ETA: I may be wrong about Dr. Roberts' professional research. I'm gonna do a bit of reading about the subject.

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    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  6. #95
    Member Array MisterB's Avatar
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    The .40 attempts to solve a problem that no longer exists. You're then stuck with paying more money for ammo, have less capacity, and have a snappy recoil.

    So what if cops use it? Cops also drive around in Crown Victoria's...

  7. #96
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I like to keep my mental paradigms simple.

    Snappy recoil = more oomph going downrange.

    More oomph going downrange = a sufficiently good thing in my estimation.

    In any event, I love all these stopping power threads we have in which we all talk about stopping power as if we have ever personally shot anybody, when the reality of it is very few of us have ever shot anybody, much less with a handgun.
    miller_man likes this.
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  8. #97
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterB View Post
    The .40 attempts to solve a problem that no longer exists..
    Don't forget, the .40cal was developed because of the "dismal failure" of the 9mm during the FBI encounter with Mike Platt in Florida back in "86".
    The 9mm has come a long way since then and we now have multiple loads that improve the 9mm to performance levels never thought possible back then.

  9. #98
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    As you can see, the difference in calibers is greater than your image shows. I'm not sure how they went about doing the one you posted, but I've told you every step I took in the process.
    Just take the bullet from each round, not the case, and draw a circle around it ( kinda like tracing it) and you will see the image is correct that I posted..

  10. #99
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrwizr View Post
    Not so. Let's do some math. 9mm = .354 cal. Going from .354 to .40 is an increase of 13%. Going from .40 to .45 is an increase of 12 1/2%. So change "much less" to "slightly more" and I'll leave you alone..
    Not to be a "weenie" but the .40 cal is one millimeter wider than the 9.
    Don't get me wrong. I was on the bandwagon on day one for the .40 cal. I bought the Glock 22 the day it came out. I shot the hell out of that round and I found no perceived recoil difference over the 9. People need more range time if the .40 seems too much. Practice practice practice!

  11. #100
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I like to keep my mental paradigms simple.

    Snappy recoil = more oomph going downrange.

    More oomph going downrange = a sufficiently good thing in my estimation...
    By this simple paradigm, a 2" Airweight .38 Special has more "oomph going downrange" than a 6" Trooper shooting full-house .357's, and my 2-3/4" .357 Security-Six has more "oomph going downrange" than my 8" Dan Wesson .44 Mag.

    It would also suggest that a compact .40 has more "oomph going downrange" than a similarly-sized .45ACP.

    It's not that simple.

    Regards,
    Jim

  12. #101
    Member Array MisterB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorri View Post
    Don't forget, the .40cal was developed because of the "dismal failure" of the 9mm during the FBI encounter with Mike Platt in Florida back in "86".
    The 9mm has come a long way since then and we now have multiple loads that improve the 9mm to performance levels never thought possible back then.
    Was that how it went? I'd have to brush up on my history, but it seems like I remember hearing that the .40 was adopted because the FBI was using 10mm (which is essentially a longer casing version of the .40), which made the grip of the gun larger to accommodate the 10mm round, and it was therefore hard for female agents and smaller male agents to handle properly.

  13. #102
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Bryon, I like the 40. However, I believe the 180 weight bullets are too heavy for the cartridge. I believe it is most efficient with bullets ranging from 155-165.

    Unique powder works very well. I get about 950 fps with 6.5 grains under a 155 weight bullet.

    The problem with picking up 40 " range brass" is the " Glock bulge" near the bottom of the case, that will not come out with a normal sizing die.
    Okay, I have heard about this "bulge" for years and have been reloading my Glock brass for several months now and I have not encountered this bulge. What am I doing wrong? My Glock-fired brass resizes just like any other brass and it cycles through my gun without any problems.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  14. #103
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    I don't typically give a rat's hole what anybody has to say about caliber. I shoot what I like to shoot and let the haters hate. 40 works well for me and I own 45s and 9ers also. Currently, I have a want for 10mm so I can get more use from my 40 dies.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  15. #104
    Member Array VNvet's Avatar
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    The snap of my 40 is its way of telling me it loves me. I like that love.

  16. #105
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    I don't think the .40 gets beat up on. Anyone who does talk crap about it is probably insecure about their own caliber of choice.

    I don't discriminate. I love 9mm, .40 and someday I'll own a .45. All three are equally capable of performing whatever task you need if you use quality defense ammo.

    Shooting .380 Gold Dots out of my LCP felt much snappier than shooting .40 180gr Blazer from my M&P.

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