Of the two, if you want an actual jacketed bullet go with the Federal Hydra Shok.
Winchester Silver Tip handgun ammo is just a lead hollow point with a thin aluminum alloy coating supposedly to prevent leading in the barrel as well as ‘tacti-cool’ marketing of the day. My box does not call it JHP but only lists it as “Silver Tip HP”. That said, it is good ‘old school’ tech and I do keep the 357mag variety in my 4 inch revolver for when it has bedside duty.
The Federal Hydra Shok is also old school but good. I have some of this too for my revolvers. I have heard of a technological upgrade called Hydra Shok II but not actually seen it. Word is it is only sold to LE by Federal but can be found at some stores and gun shows. At what price one can only imagine.
Winchester Silvertips? Why? Again, old technology. It's just a plain JHP, not any different than WWB JHPs but the jacket is some kind of an aluminum alloy instead of copper like a traditional bullet. Then the rounds cost 2-3x more than they should. I don't see why people want to carry it besides it looking cool with a silver bullet. In ballistic gel, they fragment and shed weight like a cheap JHP. They don't even use nickle plated cases! If I ever desired a hot, light weight, fragmenting load it's going to be from Cor-bon.
If you're serious about self defense, look into a load using DPX bullets, Ranger-T, Gold Dots or HSTs. High weight retention, good and reliable expansion and decent penetration.
180gr HST *my carry load* : http://www.sgammo.com/product/federa...t-ammo-p40hst1
155gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...rain-gdhp-ammo
165gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53970
180gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53962
The Silvertips create a HUGE pumpkin sized muzzle flash from the barrel. NOT good if you work at night
I am just curious as to those of you who deem the " old school" lead style bullets inferior to the latest and greatest for SD, to please explain your opinion. Exactly what do you base this great wisdom on that you impart on the lesser knowledgeable of us.
For I have found all of this hoopla over bullets costing 1$ apiece a bunch of BS.
It must be asked if the fabrication of the SilverTip bullet of the 1980s/1990s is the same as that currently offered.
"Old school isn't good school when it comes to ammo."
Such a statement asserts a premise but provides no evidence detailing specifics.
"They don't even use nickle plated cases!"
What difference does it make whether the cases are nickel-plated or not? Will it matter to the assailant? Will it matter to the shooter?
"If you're serious about self defense..."
I'm serious about self-defense. Here's the ammo choice. Old School lead bullet technology in .38 Special. "Look maw, no jacket at all!"
It's liberating to get off of the boutique "ammo du jour" merry-go-round on which marketers manipulate those concerned with self-defense. Folks ought to try it sometime.
That the darn truth!
Why are these choices "much" better?
Because the jello junkies need the work, and the manufactures need the sale. And... People need to believe that they have a magic bullet.
This helps psychologically with confidence level, and, to help justify the much greater cost of the designer bullet.
The average every day Joe non LEO will most likely will never have to fire on a BG, and if we do then we all know shot placement is most important. It seems (from what I have read about OIS, I have never had to shoot someone) that in a gunfight accuracy goes out the door and we are more likely to have to keep firing and are likely to miss the vitals. If we ever do have to fire on a BG, wouldn't we want that extra edge to cause more bleeding?
I have seen the pics you posted of whitetail kills with FMJ's. That does help prove that shot placement is most important. While I can shoot the bullseye out at the range, I doubt I would be that effective if I was scared for my life and getting shot at. In that case, I would hope that those flattened out, sharp edged hollow points would cause more bleeding and end things a little faster.
Maybe we need that confidence because we haven't been involved in a shooting and don't really know how well our accuracy will hold up enough to trust our lives to FMJ rounds. If we knew ahead of time that we were going to a shooting (of course we would avoid it, but for the sake of argument) would we take along our .380's loaded with FMJ, or would we take the best gun we have with the best ammo we could afford?
Edit: I do think that you make a good point that comparing STHP to the latest new fangled bullet tech is measuring microns. I still wouldn't want to trust my life to FMJ rounds.
I didn't say I felt they needed to issue them, so don't put words in my mouth.
I do not feel like they need HPs personally. And, I think that most would be better served with a revolver and more range time.
Both LEA's and citizens.
For some reason the experts in charge of LEO departments felt that what they needed was better ammo and range time wasn't an issue. Since I am far from an expert in the topic, I tend to look to the experts and what they choose to do the job and try to mimic them. I do see your point which I believe is that we may be stressing over the details instead of focusing on the fundamentals.
I base my "wisdom" on the wisdom of others. Who have tested the rounds, and work independently from the manufactures. If they were paid by the manufactures then I wouldn't trust them.
Your correct about the bullets that cost over a dollar each. I'll look for cheaper bullets like these Winchester Ranger-T .45acp 230gr JHP (RA45T) that run $31.95 for 50(about .63 cent each) and they are also on THE LIST. (In 9mm they run about .53 cent depending on weight)
:smile: It's sad to hear you call yourself(and others) "less knowledgeable" with the power of the internet at your disposal. Maybe less time posting here and more research elsewhere. :gah: :smile:
THIS LIST, check some prices and buy it. There, done.
If the prices were close to the same would you buy a bullet that expands 70% of the time or one that expands 95% of the time? :image035: