Winchester Silver Tip Hollow Point for self defense - Page 2

Winchester Silver Tip Hollow Point for self defense

This is a discussion on Winchester Silver Tip Hollow Point for self defense within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OldVet That's werewolves, not vampires. You need wooden bullets dipped in Holy Water for vampires. Silver can be used to weaken Vampires....

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Thread: Winchester Silver Tip Hollow Point for self defense

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    That's werewolves, not vampires. You need wooden bullets dipped in Holy Water for vampires.
    Silver can be used to weaken Vampires.
    Rleng616 likes this.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    Of the two, if you want an actual jacketed bullet go with the Federal Hydra Shok.

    Winchester Silver Tip handgun ammo is just a lead hollow point with a thin aluminum alloy coating supposedly to prevent leading in the barrel as well as ‘tacti-cool’ marketing of the day. My box does not call it JHP but only lists it as “Silver Tip HP”. That said, it is good ‘old school’ tech and I do keep the 357mag variety in my 4 inch revolver for when it has bedside duty.

    The Federal Hydra Shok is also old school but good. I have some of this too for my revolvers. I have heard of a technological upgrade called Hydra Shok II but not actually seen it. Word is it is only sold to LE by Federal but can be found at some stores and gun shows. At what price one can only imagine.
    ...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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  3. #18
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    The Federal Hydra Shok is also old school but good. I have some of this too for my revolvers. I have heard of a technological upgrade called Hydra Shok II but not actually seen it. Word is it is only sold to LE by Federal but can be found at some stores and gun shows. At what price one can only imagine.
    Old school isn't good school when it comes to ammo. Lead round nose bullets in .38 special are about as old school as it gets if you're into that. Modern bullets have evolved to outperform nearly all 30+ year old offerings. I do not recommend Hydra-Shok to anybody. What you have heard as the "Hydra Shok II" is actually the Federal HST. I have heard it called the "Hi-shok II". This bullet is completely superior to Hydra-shoks and in LE packaging can be about half the cost. HSTs are marketed towards law enforcement, but you can find them online through some dealers. SGammo usually stocks it. I carry HSTs in 9mm and .40. I even have a box of HSTs in .45 for whenever I get a .45. I'm a believer.

    Winchester Silvertips? Why? Again, old technology. It's just a plain JHP, not any different than WWB JHPs but the jacket is some kind of an aluminum alloy instead of copper like a traditional bullet. Then the rounds cost 2-3x more than they should. I don't see why people want to carry it besides it looking cool with a silver bullet. In ballistic gel, they fragment and shed weight like a cheap JHP. They don't even use nickle plated cases! If I ever desired a hot, light weight, fragmenting load it's going to be from Cor-bon.

    If you're serious about self defense, look into a load using DPX bullets, Ranger-T, Gold Dots or HSTs. High weight retention, good and reliable expansion and decent penetration.
    180gr HST *my carry load* : http://www.sgammo.com/product/federa...t-ammo-p40hst1
    165gr HST:http://www.sgammo.com/product/federa...t-p40hst3-ammo
    155gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...rain-gdhp-ammo
    165gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53970
    180gr Gold Dot: http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/...int-ammo-53962

  4. #19
    Member Array k6gixx's Avatar
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    The Silvertips create a HUGE pumpkin sized muzzle flash from the barrel. NOT good if you work at night
    Showman likes this.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I am just curious as to those of you who deem the " old school" lead style bullets inferior to the latest and greatest for SD, to please explain your opinion. Exactly what do you base this great wisdom on that you impart on the lesser knowledgeable of us.

    For I have found all of this hoopla over bullets costing 1$ apiece a bunch of BS.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #21
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    It must be asked if the fabrication of the SilverTip bullet of the 1980s/1990s is the same as that currently offered.



    "Old school isn't good school when it comes to ammo."


    Such a statement asserts a premise but provides no evidence detailing specifics.


    "They don't even use nickle plated cases!"

    What difference does it make whether the cases are nickel-plated or not? Will it matter to the assailant? Will it matter to the shooter?


    "If you're serious about self defense..."


    I'm serious about self-defense. Here's the ammo choice. Old School lead bullet technology in .38 Special. "Look maw, no jacket at all!"


    It's liberating to get off of the boutique "ammo du jour" merry-go-round on which marketers manipulate those concerned with self-defense. Folks ought to try it sometime.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    That the darn truth!
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    The silvertip is old tech, there are MUCH better choices available.
    Agreed

  9. #24
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    Why are these choices "much" better?
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society "Get heeled! No really"

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Because the jello junkies need the work, and the manufactures need the sale. And... People need to believe that they have a magic bullet.

    This helps psychologically with confidence level, and, to help justify the much greater cost of the designer bullet.
    Bad Bob and awoodpd13 like this.
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  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Because the jello junkies need the work, and the manufactures need the sale. And... People need to believe that they have a magic bullet.

    This helps psychologically with confidence level, and, to help justify the much greater cost of the designer bullet.
    Aren't you a LEO? Why do the police feel the need to issue hollowpoints or semi-auto's? Do they suffer from a lack of self confidence? Why don't they just stick to .38 caliber revolvers with 158gr lead rounds? Maybe they do use the latest hollowpoints because they have found that under extreme stress, we aren't so likely to shoot as accurately as on the range at paper so we want to have that edge to cause more bleeding even if the vitals are missed?

    The average every day Joe non LEO will most likely will never have to fire on a BG, and if we do then we all know shot placement is most important. It seems (from what I have read about OIS, I have never had to shoot someone) that in a gunfight accuracy goes out the door and we are more likely to have to keep firing and are likely to miss the vitals. If we ever do have to fire on a BG, wouldn't we want that extra edge to cause more bleeding?

    I have seen the pics you posted of whitetail kills with FMJ's. That does help prove that shot placement is most important. While I can shoot the bullseye out at the range, I doubt I would be that effective if I was scared for my life and getting shot at. In that case, I would hope that those flattened out, sharp edged hollow points would cause more bleeding and end things a little faster.

    Maybe we need that confidence because we haven't been involved in a shooting and don't really know how well our accuracy will hold up enough to trust our lives to FMJ rounds. If we knew ahead of time that we were going to a shooting (of course we would avoid it, but for the sake of argument) would we take along our .380's loaded with FMJ, or would we take the best gun we have with the best ammo we could afford?

    Edit: I do think that you make a good point that comparing STHP to the latest new fangled bullet tech is measuring microns. I still wouldn't want to trust my life to FMJ rounds.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I didn't say I felt they needed to issue them, so don't put words in my mouth.

    I do not feel like they need HPs personally. And, I think that most would be better served with a revolver and more range time.

    Both LEA's and citizens.
    Bad Bob likes this.
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  13. #28
    Member Array carracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    That's werewolves, not vampires. You need wooden bullets dipped in Holy Water for vampires.
    Yes, that is correct. I also have several boxes of Silvertips in various calibers .44 spec to 30.06. I always keep them next to my Hornady ZombieMax loads. Cuz, you never know....

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I didn't say I felt they needed to issue them, so don't put words in my mouth.

    I do not feel like they need HPs personally. And, I think that most would be better served with a revolver and more range time.

    Both LEA's and citizens.
    I honestly wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was asking you why they feel that need.

    For some reason the experts in charge of LEO departments felt that what they needed was better ammo and range time wasn't an issue. Since I am far from an expert in the topic, I tend to look to the experts and what they choose to do the job and try to mimic them. I do see your point which I believe is that we may be stressing over the details instead of focusing on the fundamentals.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  15. #30
    Member Array Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I am just curious as to those of you who deem the " old school" lead style bullets inferior to the latest and greatest for SD, to please explain your opinion. Exactly what do you base this great wisdom on that you impart on the lesser knowledgeable of us.

    For I have found all of this hoopla over bullets costing 1$ apiece a bunch of BS.
    A "old style" lead bullet will be better then a FMJ. Depending on composition of the lead, it should expand/deform/flatten when striking a target. Will it penetrate enough? Maybe. Will it over penetrate? Maybe. A quality hollowpoint should expand and penetrate -- not one or the other. There's my opinion.

    I base my "wisdom" on the wisdom of others. Who have tested the rounds, and work independently from the manufactures. If they were paid by the manufactures then I wouldn't trust them.

    Your correct about the bullets that cost over a dollar each. I'll look for cheaper bullets like these Winchester Ranger-T .45acp 230gr JHP (RA45T) that run $31.95 for 50(about .63 cent each) and they are also on THE LIST. (In 9mm they run about .53 cent depending on weight)

    It's sad to hear you call yourself(and others) "less knowledgeable" with the power of the internet at your disposal. Maybe less time posting here and more research elsewhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    It must be asked if the fabrication of the SilverTip bullet of the 1980s/1990s is the same as that currently offered.



    "Old school isn't good school when it comes to ammo."


    Such a statement asserts a premise but provides no evidence detailing specifics.

    I'm serious about self-defense. Here's the ammo choice. Old School lead bullet technology in .38 Special. "Look maw, no jacket at all!"


    It's liberating to get off of the boutique "ammo du jour" merry-go-round on which marketers manipulate those concerned with self-defense. Folks ought to try it sometime.
    Yes it is nice getting off the merry-go-round, just find your caliber on THIS LIST, check some prices and buy it. There, done.


    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Why are these choices "much" better?
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Because the jello junkies need the work, and the manufactures need the sale. And... People have more cents than sense.
    I'm not sure about the "jello junkies", but in my opinion they are "much better" because they expand and penetrate more reliably. Instead of a bullet expanding 70% of the time, you have the option to purchase bullets that expand 95% of the time(both those percentages were just guesses, I didn't research expansion percentages for modern hollowpoint ammunition, sorry).

    If the prices were close to the same would you buy a bullet that expands 70% of the time or one that expands 95% of the time?
    --Jason--

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