FMJ or HP for .380 ACP?? - Page 4

FMJ or HP for .380 ACP??

This is a discussion on FMJ or HP for .380 ACP?? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Six ...the attorneys are going to really play up the "Zombie" factor, and probably show the Zombie Max commercial at your trial, ...

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  1. #46
    481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    ...the attorneys are going to really play up the "Zombie" factor, and probably show the Zombie Max commercial at your trial, and do everything in their power to make you look bad.
    They are gonna do that anyway. Still, no point in giving them more to work with.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    when it come to rounds below the 9mm size it is fmj for me.
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  3. #48
    Six
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    They are gonna do that anyway. Still, no point in giving them more to work with.
    In the ideal defensive shooting situation (as if there could ever be one), the shooter will truly appear as a victim, not really eager to be in a shooting. The less you can appear to be "gung ho," the better. Carrying Zombie Max ammunition, your clothing choices, etc, will all play a part. The idea is to minimize the idea that you are some sort of "Rambo," and that of victim. I mean, look at how they are vilifying Zimmerman in Florida. Sorry to hijack, but I feel strongly about this subject. Oh and I carry FMJ in my .380, but I rarely carry my .380 as a primary defensive weapon.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    In the ideal defensive shooting situation (as if there could ever be one), the shooter will truly appear as a victim, not really eager to be in a shooting. The less you can appear to be "gung ho," the better. Carrying Zombie Max ammunition, your clothing choices, etc, will all play a part. The idea is to minimize the idea that you are some sort of "Rambo," and that of victim. I mean, look at how they are vilifying Zimmerman in Florida. Sorry to hijack, but I feel strongly about this subject. Oh and I carry FMJ in my .380, but I rarely carry my .380 as a primary defensive weapon.
    Exactly my point. Zimmerman used plain old 9mm 115 gr. ball- imagine if he'd used Zombie Max ammo instead- the media (which tries these matters in the court of public opinion well ahead of the actual case) would've crucified him portraying him as someone who has checked out of reality and started carrying ammunition designed to kill the undead. As much as I think that loading up with ball ammo is generally bad idea (the .380 and "smaller" calibers being the exception), at least the prosecution can't jump on him for using "extra-deadly JHPs designed to increase human suffering" or some other goofy hyped-up ammo.
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  5. #50
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    Hornady Critical Defense

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    I just fill my P380 with FMJ but I'm no expert. It's a fun range gun though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    Zimmerman used plain old 9mm 115 gr. ball- imagine if he'd used Zombie Max ammo instead.
    Where did you read that information? Zimmerman seemed like he knew what he was doing and most knowledgeable people carry quality expanding ammo for SD using duty calibers, not range ammo. The police report said the bullet was still in Trayvon's body. I would think a 9mm FMJ would pass right through a skinny young man.

    Also, the only difference between Z-max and Critical Defense is the name, the lack of nickle plating on the cases and the color of the polymer plug.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post

    Also, the only difference between Z-max and Critical Defense is the name, the lack of nickle plating on the cases and the color of the polymer plug.
    Yes, but the name "Zombie Max" itself carries enhanced civil liability. Why do you think Winchester stopped making "Black Talons" and came out with "SXT" (Same eXact Thing) rounds? There was not only public furor with black colored bullets called "Black Talons," but law enforcement agencies wanted to distance themselves from liability. When you are on the hot seat, the last thing you want to be doing is explaining why you were using Zombie Killer bullets. It may be different in name only, but the name goes a long way for an attorney out for your blood.

  9. #54
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    Exactly my point. Zimmerman used plain old 9mm 115 gr. ball-
    Can you supply the source of this information?
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Can you supply the source of this information?
    (in my best "Curley" voice- he was the best Stooge ever) C-oi-tainly!

    Zimmerman's gun was a Keltec PF9 loaded with 115 gr. ball- HERE
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    (in my best "Curley" voice- he was the best Stooge ever) C-oi-tainly!

    Zimmerman's gun was a Keltec PF9 loaded with 115 gr. ball- HERE
    Thank you Sir.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    Where did you read that information? Zimmerman seemed like he knew what he was doing and most knowledgeable people carry quality expanding ammo for SD using duty calibers, not range ammo. The police report said the bullet was still in Trayvon's body. I would think a 9mm FMJ would pass right through a skinny young man.
    Fish,

    Not if it hits bone. Check out the link HERE Those are FMJs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    Also, the only difference between Z-max and Critical Defense is the name, the lack of nickle plating on the cases and the color of the polymer plug.
    That's not the point. The name of the product is what is going to cause a jury to make such assumptions. The prosecutor needs only show a jury the ammo box with all that ridiculous "Zombie Max" advertising hype/illustrations on it and they'll happily make the leap that anyone using that ammo is nut who carries ammunition to kill the "undead".
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Thank you Sir.
    Ah, no problem, brother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post

    That's not the point. The name of the product is what is going to cause a jury to make such assumptions. The prosecutor needs only show a jury the ammo box with all that ridiculous "Zombie Max" advertising hype/illustrations on it and they'll happily make the leap that anyone using that ammo is nut who carries ammunition to kill the "undead".
    More to the point, it's not so much the criminal trial you have to worry about. At the end of the day, in a criminal trial, if you acted legitimately in self defense, the actual ammunition you were carrying should not affect the outcome. It's the civil trial where they will go after you and your pocketbook. This is where you are going to pay the price for carrying those ridiculous loads.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    More to the point, it's not so much the criminal trial you have to worry about. At the end of the day, in a criminal trial, if you acted legitimately in self defense, the actual ammunition you were carrying should not affect the outcome.
    "Should not" and "will not" are light-years apart.

    You have far more faith in the system producing that outcome than I do. There is more to it than that, myriad political concerns (like the prosecutor's willingness to engage in behavior that borders, if not constitutes, unethical conduct) too numerous too list here, most of them unimaginable and unforseeable will work against you. It being naivete' or optimism, such a perspective does not square with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    It's the civil trial where they will go after you and your pocketbook. This is where you are going to pay the price for carrying those ridiculous loads.
    If you aren't prison already, your savings and assets having been siphoned off to pay your defense lawyer. At that point, what happens in a tort action matters very little.
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    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

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