FMJ or HP for .380 ACP??

This is a discussion on FMJ or HP for .380 ACP?? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 481 "Should not" and "will not" are light-years apart. You have far more faith in the system producing that outcome than I ...

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Thread: FMJ or HP for .380 ACP??

  1. #61
    Six
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    "Should not" and "will not" are light-years apart.

    You have far more faith in the system producing that outcome than I do. There is more to it than that, myriad political concerns (like the prosecutor's willingness to engage in behavior that borders, if not constitutes, unethical conduct) too numerous too list here, most of them unimaginable and unforseeable will work against you. It being naivete' or optimism, such a perspective does not square with reality.
    Perhaps. I am speaking from my own experience. I have actually been in a self defense shooting. I spent a week on the stand and at the end of the day, the person *I* shot went to prison for 30 years. Tell me about your experience in your last shooting.

    I never had to pay a dime in civil penalties. The person *I* shot was forced to pay restitution to me for his actions.

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  3. #62
    481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Perhaps. I am speaking from my own experience. I have actually been in a self defense shooting. I spent a week on the stand and at the end of the day, the person *I* shot went to prison for 30 years. Tell me about your experience in your last shooting.

    I never had to pay a dime in civil penalties. The person *I* shot was forced to pay restitution to me for his actions.
    OK, that's one trial that didn't go the wrong way. It's sheer naivete' to expect that all prosecutions will go the "right way" just because yours did.

    I've testified in court enough over the course of my career to see "good shootings" go either way.
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  4. #63
    Member Array Dana's Avatar
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    Got to concur with FMJ in Flat Point. Bigger Meplat and deeper penetration. AE has the 95gr - 50rds for around $16. Kilt is kilt.

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    I'm running Winchester PDX1 Defender ™ (STOP THE THREAT™) in everything from my .380's to my .45's and AR. That way, if it doesn't work and stop the threat, my next of kin only have one ammo manufacturer to sue.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    More to the point, it's not so much the criminal trial you have to worry about. At the end of the day, in a criminal trial, if you acted legitimately in self defense, the actual ammunition you were carrying should not affect the outcome. It's the civil trial where they will go after you and your pocketbook. This is where you are going to pay the price for carrying those ridiculous loads.
    Depending on the DA and the jury you get, acting in legitimate defense may have little to do with keeping you out of jail.

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Depending on the DA and the jury you get, acting in legitimate defense may have little to do with keeping you out of jail.
    You left out public opinion of your self defense situation after the media gets hold of it.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

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    Six
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    OK, that's one trial that didn't go the wrong way. It's sheer naivete' to expect that all prosecutions will go the "right way" just because yours did.

    I've testified in court enough over the course of my career to see "good shootings" go either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Depending on the DA and the jury you get, acting in legitimate defense may have little to do with keeping you out of jail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    You left out public opinion of your self defense situation after the media gets hold of it.
    I think really we're all right, and in agreement. You should at all times make an effort to minimize your liability and to avoid the appearance that you are just "too eager" to get into a shooting. Something as trivial as carrying "Zombie Max" (Zombie Killer) ammo can mean the difference between going free and going to prison.

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    481, I understand the whole name thing, and because of that possible issue (as well as the lack of nickle plating) I would not carry Z-max when Critical Defense or another SD round is an option. But when you've shot someone is self defense, there are bigger issues than what kind of bullet you used. If the justice system works, and the jury isn't stupid as crap I really don't think the simple name of your ammo would get you wrongfully convicted of a crime. (lol, with all of the face eaters in the news maybe the jury wouldn't care)

    You are right if the shooting ever goes to a civil/criminal trial, it could be a liability.

    Thanks for sharing the link to the pictures of the PF9 and ammo. I was googling it last night and couldn't find any information about it. FMJ does seem odd though. Perhaps it was the only thing that would cycle reliably in the PF9?[/QUOTE] FMJ does seem odd though. Perhaps it was the only thing that would cycle reliably in the PF9?

  10. #69
    481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    I think really we're all right, and in agreement.
    Oh Hell, yeah we are!
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  11. #70
    481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    481, I understand the whole name thing, and because of that possible issue (as well as the lack of nickle plating) I would not carry Z-max when Critical Defense or another SD round is an option. But when you've shot someone is self defense, there are bigger issues than what kind of bullet you used. If the justice system works, and the jury isn't stupid as crap I really don't think the simple name of your ammo would get you wrongfully convicted of a crime. (lol, with all of the face eaters in the news maybe the jury wouldn't care)
    That's an awfully big "IF", Fish, but yeah, I get you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    You are right...
    I never get tired of hearing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    Thanks for sharing the link to the pictures of the PF9 and ammo. I was googling it last night and couldn't find any information about it. FMJ does seem odd though. Perhaps it was the only thing that would cycle reliably in the PF9? FMJ does seem odd though. Perhaps it was the only thing that would cycle reliably in the PF9?
    We'd have to ask Mr. Zimmerman 'bout that. Perhaps he'll write a book after this is all over.

    ETA: Now that I think of it- Six, is your incident "book-worthy"? Have you thought about doing a book?
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    Quote Originally Posted by indykid View Post
    My wife now wants an ultra compact .380 for EDC (she doesn't like the recoil of subcompact, lightweight 9mm's) so I'm wondering if she should carry FMJ's or HP's in her carry piece. I know that 9mm is superior to .380 and that there are plenty of 9mm carry guns that don't recoil that much but she is a 110lb woman with wrists the size of my big toe so she really doesn't like the recoil and if she's uncomfortable with it than she won't want to shoot and even if she does she's going to have a flinch so lets strike out all of those discussions from this thread. What I would like to hear is what people who actually carry their .380's to respond and tell me if they use ball ammo or hollowpoints. Please leave out any second hand discussion about what you heard on the Outdoor Channel or what your cousin told you about .380's. I'd like first hand experience only please and thank you.

    God Bless
    In my opinion, FMJ have no place in self defense applications in any caliber. They do not disrupt flesh adequately to cause shock sufficient to stop the threat and they tend to over penetrate. Always go with a quality HP round. With the technological advances in ammo design even the little .380 can be a effective self defense round.
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    This morning my son-in-law, grandson and I went out for our normal Friday practice but this time I brought two pieces of 3/4" plywood. I set them up under our favorite zombie and did a little experiment with my P-238. From seven yards I shot a .380 powrball MJHP with a plastic ball in the nose at the double thikness (1 1/2") of plywood. It went through both. I then shot a FMJ through the same two plywood pieces. The exit holes were about identical. I then did the same MJHP +p with the S&W Airweight. And then I did the same with my FMJ practice round. Same story, about the same exit holes as the .380. My SIL shoots a .40 and he tried HP and FMJ. Grandson shot .357 mag HP. All these bullets went through two sheets of 3/4" plywood with almost identical exit holes. I am sure the +p and the .40 and the .357 went deeper into the backstop but two sheets of plywood is pretty tough and much more than winter clothing. This little test proves nothing except that the .380 bullet of either type if well placed will kill. We then went on with our normal practice. I still have a bit of problem getting the safety off on the P-238 after shooting the S&W Airweight. I'm sure any person would have the same problem shooting any gun with a safety after shooting a lot with a gun without; revolver, M&P 40, Glock, etc. Good time was had by all except our poor zombie who got replaced with a terroist when I got home.
    Retired AF pilot, Vietnam FAC 1967-68

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