FBI Miami Shootout and 9mm

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Originally Posted by sgb

The Miami shootout brought to the forefront of LE many glaring deficiencies. Much of which was poor tactics and insufficient training to deal with the caliber of criminal that Platt and Matix posed. Tactics and training do not get the amount of discussion here as terminal bullet performance does simply because the majority of those here are not interested in obtaining quality training when they believe a magic bb from their 380 is all that's required.

Those that denigrate others interested in the science of terminal ballistics as jello junkies are in their own world of denial.

[B]ALL[/B] the lessons learned from the Miami shootout should be given weight by any serious student of the gun.

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^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^


Hey!!!!!! Wait a minute, I didn't get no magic BB's.

Who's got my magic BB's?

Oh, wait a minute, I don't got no stinkin' .380.

As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
Cute though, for sure!

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Originally Posted by oneshot

As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
Cute though, for sure!

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They look like Tribbles to me. :wink:

It is always an interesting case study to read about. I still feel just fine with a 9mm though I prefer Speer Gold Dots over Silvertips.

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Originally Posted by Toorop

It is always an interesting case study to read about. I still feel just fine with a 9mm though I prefer Speer Gold Dots over Silvertips.

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I agree about the Silvertips. Not to create a "bullet war" but it is not an efficient design. Jacket separation was and still is not uncommon, which means that some energy is expended in separating the jacket rather than all available energy being expended in the target. That's why I love and use bonded bullets. One exception to this is the HST, which is not bonded but rarely if ever loses its jacket.

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Originally Posted by grouse

This fight if nothing else should show everyone who carries a handgun that a handgun against a rifle is a gross mismatch.

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This. Rifle > 2 pistols.

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Originally Posted by oneshot

^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^


Hey!!!!!! Wait a minute, I didn't get no magic BB's.

Who's got my magic BB's?

Oh, wait a minute, I don't got no stinkin' .380.

As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
Cute though, for sure!

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I'll give you a hint ............ they're harry, round and utterly worthless. :wink:

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Originally Posted by OD*

They look like Tribbles to me. :wink:

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Yep that's it :image035:

Well hey, at least Jerry Dove got a road named after him at the FBI facility in WV. It's not much (not much at all), but at least the FBI is honoring his name in some way. Of course the best thing they can do to honor both agents is to never forget the lessons learned from that incident.

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Originally Posted by RubenZ

I agree. This incident was not a failure because of bullet stopping power. It was agents who didn't know what the heck they were doing.

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You had hardened criminals with a mini-14, a shotgun, and pistols..... they were ready and able ...they had nothing to lose .. on the other side you had some FBI office-types.


1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia