FBI Miami Shootout and 9mm - Page 2

FBI Miami Shootout and 9mm

This is a discussion on FBI Miami Shootout and 9mm within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by sgb The Miami shootout brought to the forefront of LE many glaring deficiencies. Much of which was poor tactics and insufficient training ...

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Thread: FBI Miami Shootout and 9mm

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    The Miami shootout brought to the forefront of LE many glaring deficiencies. Much of which was poor tactics and insufficient training to deal with the caliber of criminal that Platt and Matix posed. Tactics and training do not get the amount of discussion here as terminal bullet performance does simply because the majority of those here are not interested in obtaining quality training when they believe a magic bb from their 380 is all that's required.

    Those that denigrate others interested in the science of terminal ballistics as jello junkies are in their own world of denial.

    [B]ALL[/B] the lessons learned from the Miami shootout should be given weight by any serious student of the gun.


    ^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^


    Hey!!!!!! Wait a minute, I didn't get no magic BB's.

    Who's got my magic BB's?

    Oh, wait a minute, I don't got no stinkin' .380.

    As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
    What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
    Cute though, for sure!
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn


  2. #17
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
    What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
    Cute though, for sure!
    They look like Tribbles to me.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    It is always an interesting case study to read about. I still feel just fine with a 9mm though I prefer Speer Gold Dots over Silvertips.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    It is always an interesting case study to read about. I still feel just fine with a 9mm though I prefer Speer Gold Dots over Silvertips.
    I agree about the Silvertips. Not to create a "bullet war" but it is not an efficient design. Jacket separation was and still is not uncommon, which means that some energy is expended in separating the jacket rather than all available energy being expended in the target. That's why I love and use bonded bullets. One exception to this is the HST, which is not bonded but rarely if ever loses its jacket.
    Last edited by OD*; August 31st, 2012 at 08:54 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by grouse View Post
    This fight if nothing else should show everyone who carries a handgun that a handgun against a rifle is a gross mismatch.
    This. Rifle > 2 pistols.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

  6. #21
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^


    Hey!!!!!! Wait a minute, I didn't get no magic BB's.

    Who's got my magic BB's?

    Oh, wait a minute, I don't got no stinkin' .380.

    As an aside sgb, your new Avatar has me buffalo'ed.
    What have we there, some of Cousin It's long lost relatives?
    Cute though, for sure!
    I'll give you a hint ............ they're harry, round and utterly worthless.


    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    They look like Tribbles to me.
    Yep that's it
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Well hey, at least Jerry Dove got a road named after him at the FBI facility in WV. It's not much (not much at all), but at least the FBI is honoring his name in some way. Of course the best thing they can do to honor both agents is to never forget the lessons learned from that incident.
    sgb and FTG-05 like this.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenZ View Post
    I agree. This incident was not a failure because of bullet stopping power. It was agents who didn't know what the heck they were doing.

    You had hardened criminals with a mini-14, a shotgun, and pistols..... they were ready and able ...they had nothing to lose .. on the other side you had some FBI office-types.


    1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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