FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - Page 6

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

This is a discussion on FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Good morning DocT65, join me for coffee in the patio? "Lupita, dos cafe por favor". You posted --> At the end of the day, rapid ...

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Thread: FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

  1. #76
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    Good morning DocT65, join me for coffee in the patio? "Lupita, dos cafe por favor".

    You posted --> At the end of the day, rapid and/or immediate incapacitation or death will only occur with the sudden disruption or destruction of the central nervous system or a major vascular structure that will result in abrupt hypotensive shock. That's the medical fact.
    ******************
    There can be no contesting of that data, but what can be questioned if where is the best area to find that spot. Most of us are conditioned to think of center of body mass, heart. i disagree.

    In the terms of close quarter combat, the neck is far superior. It is protected by 'only a thin layer of skin' - no bullet proof vest or thick clothing, hence the penetration factor does 'not' enter into the picture - and is loaded chock full of extremely pain sensitive organs, two major arteries /veins, as well as an extremely exposed spinal column system.

    Also include the psychological shock factor from a hit in the neck with blood squirting, and hurting like h---, tends to err, ah, simply scare the he-- out of the average recipient.

    I agree, that in military combat, other factors are involved. I have seen this from Guadalcanal on.

    Don Jose de la Mancha


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    But by shooting random bullets into jello and looking at the pretty mushroom and measuring the depth of penetration, how are you then accurately determining effectiveness with no metric? You will say, "Well, the bullets my god's suggest work see......" I will respond by saying they were lucky guesses in most cases. The 147 grain 9mm is one such load. In the aftermath of the Miami shootout Dr. Fackler praised this load, it was dismal. It took over 20 years of evolution to make it work.
    Actually, it was the Winchester 9mm 115 gr. Silvertip JHP that passed through Platt's upper arm and stopped about an inch short of his heart in the Miami incident that you refer to. If there was an indictment of any bullet, it would be against those of lower sectional density (like the 115s in 9mm, the 155s in .40, and the 185s in .45).

    Dr. Fackler was correct to laud the virtues of bullets of the highest possible sectional density. Had the 147 gr. Silvertip existed at the time of the Miami shooting and been used in lieu of the 115 gr. Silvertip, the bullet would've likely hit Platt's heart ending the fight much sooner.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    Actually, it was the Winchester 9mm 115 gr. Silvertip JHP that passed through Platt's upper arm and stopped about an inch short of his heart in the Miami incident that you refer to. If there was an indictment of any bullet, it would be against those of lower sectional density (like the 115s in 9mm, the 155s in .40, and the 185s in .45).

    Dr. Fackler was correct to laud the virtues of bullets of the highest possible sectional density. Had the 147 gr. Silvertip existed at the time of the Miami shooting and been used in lieu of the 115 gr. Silvertip, the bullet would've likely hit Platt's heart ending the fight much sooner.
    No, I do not refer to the 115 Grain Silvertip, it worked as designed, it was just the only one out of the 15 round mag that hit. The 115 grain +P+ 9mm and the 155 grain 40 both work well on the street. Marksmanship and tactics would have solved the problem too. To say that a bullet then not in existence would have solved the problem is too much like fortune telling for me.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    I could never understand why folks have to resort to the character assassination via ommission of Roberts just because they don't agree with him. Guy's a well-respected, highly-trained and experienced ballistician who has probably forgotten more than we'll ever know. Hardly a "lab rat".
    "Character assassination" really? He is a Dentist, a Doctor of Dentistry, if he were a neurosurgeon, he would use that title. A Jarhead is a Marine, a Squid is in the Navy a lab rat works in the lab. You really need to stop taking it so personal.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    To say that a bullet then not in existence would have solved the problem is too much like fortune telling for me.
    If you don't see the simple point, I doubt further explanation will resolve it.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    "Character assassination" really? He is a Dentist, a Doctor of Dentistry, if he were a neurosurgeon, he would use that title. A Jarhead is a Marine, a Squid is in the Navy a lab rat works in the lab. You really need to stop taking it so personal.
    Nothing for me to take personally- you didn't call me a name.

    I simply said that I could never understand the motivations of those who have to resort to name-calling and derisive conduct in order to make their point (e.g. "trolling"). It's a tactic typically used by those who don't have a valid argument to begin with.
    My favorite "gun" book-

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  7. #82
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    This thread's about wound on down.
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    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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