September 2nd, 2012 11:05 PM
Liberty Halo-Point Civil Defense Ammunition
Anyone have any experience with "Liberty Halo-Point Civil Defense Ammunition"? I just got an e-mail sale flyer for it from Midway.
This stuff has VERY light bullets (50, 60, and 78 gr. for 9mm, .40, and .45ACP, respectively) at VERY high velocities (2000fps for 9 & .40, and 1900fps for .45). Supposed to give a solid 12" penetration, but fragment along the way. It's also supposed to produce very low recoil. I'd never heard of the stuff.
Anybody have any experience or (objective) performance data on it?
TIA for responses.
September 3rd, 2012 02:20 AM
I'd like to try their .45 ammo because I love trying out different .45ACP ammo. It's $28.00 for 20 cartridges so it be a bit on the steep side.
Liberty Halo-Point Civil Defense ammunition is a high velocity, extremely accurate load designed for self-defense. The 78 Grain Lead-Free Fragmenting Hollow Point bullet travels at 1900 feet per second, resulting in 12 inches of ballistic gel penetration and a permanent wound cavity greater than 5 inches in diameter. When tested through denim cloth into ballistic gel, this load penetrated almost 8 inches deep and produced a wound cavity 6 inches in diameter. This lightweight, high velocity round yields less felt recoil and has an effective range of 25 meters. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, and requires no weapons modifications.
Technical Information Caliber: 45 ACP +P
Bullet Weight: 78 Grains
Bullet Style: Fragmenting Hollow Point Lead-Free
Case Type: Nickel Plated Brass
Muzzle Velocity: 1900 fps
Muzzle Energy: 625 ft. lbs.
September 3rd, 2012 02:31 AM
I'm a bit leery of bullets that are that light. I may keep an eye on youtube and wait to see if anyone does any gel tests of these loads. Yes, I know gel tests are not the be all/end all of bullet performance testing, but I feel it gives a pretty good indication of how a particular load will do.
September 3rd, 2012 06:17 AM
Sounds like RBCD in new packaging...but the same old lies.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
September 3rd, 2012 08:16 AM
They do have some gel and meat Pics on their website. Just FYI.
September 3rd, 2012 05:55 PM
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
September 3rd, 2012 09:11 PM
Who is gonna afford enough of these magical bullets to establish reliable feeding - in all your magazines, for all your guns in the chosen caliber?
I guess if the taxpayers are funding you, then...
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
September 3rd, 2012 09:26 PM
I'm beyond skeptical when a business purports to have demonstrated their product to an "undisclosed unit in the US Army."
September 4th, 2012 03:06 AM
Yes, I've seen them. I still remain a bit skeptical. I'm not saying the won't perform as advertised, I'm simply saying I don't know. And I'm not willing to bet my life on an unknown. I'm sure there will be some youtube videos that pop up using these rounds. I'll wait for them. In the meantime, I remain a "heavy for caliber" guy.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
November 1st, 2012 11:25 PM
tried the 9mm- liked actually shooting them
I just bought a box of these in 9mm and have only tried them on the range with a S&W compact 9.
Based on just shooting a paper target at 10 yards, they are certainly accurate.
They do shoot noticeably different and are "snappier" in recoil with a pronounced muzzle flash, but do make it really easy to re-acquire during rapid fire and shoot a small group (yea, I only shot 20- they are expensive)
...on a stupid note, they also weigh about half a normal bullet and as i carry everywhere, a couple ounces of savings may just be a mental game, but ill take it.
cant wait to see more independent tests...
November 3rd, 2012 11:53 AM
I have actually tried the Halo Point ammo, and did a review of the .45ACP Halo Point on Midways website some weeks back.
My Usual carry ammo is either HST's or Golden Sabers in 230 grain.
Unfortunately I dont have access to doing a full-blown independent Gel/Chrono/penetration test,
so I had to rely on the website info.
I would also love to see a YouTube vid of it as well.
BTW: I don't have any affiliation with the company.
Here's the complete review as posted.
Like the previous poster stated, recoil is snappy, but not heavy, and muzzle blast is
In this review, I would, like to bring up a few points that I think are being overlooked in the "light-n-fast" discussion.
#1 Comparing all of the "lightweight" rounds in one basket is sort of
like saying "All 230 grain JHP's are the same".
There are design differences that will contribute to or detract from,
penetration and other performance factors.
#2 There are other "Light and Quick" rounds out there that will get the job done.
The FN Five-Seven is a good example.
The newer Armscor 22tcm is also an interesting newer development.
We can get into details like sectional density of the smaller caliber
rounds and such, but in a real world scenario, I wouldnt want to be
hit by any of them.
In Fact, the Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations.
If FN can design their cartridge to penetrate & expand in a reliable fashion
so can other manufacturers.
On to the review:
Lets look at the specs vs a few other options.
Liberty Halo 45ACP Weight: 78gr Velocity: 1900 FPS
Armscor .22 TCM at 40 grains at 2000 feet per second
FN Five-seven <5.7×28mm> 40 gr at 1,700 FPS
Personally speaking, If I am going to go with one of these,
the fact that I can load the Halo into my XDS and 1911 without
mods and/or purchasing another pistol is a deciding factor.
That, and the 45ACP Halo is twice the weight at the same velocity.
I know that a water jug isnt the best testing medium, but holy energy-dump batman!
The 45ACP Halo decimates a jug.
I ran a 1/2 a box thru my Series 70 Gold Cup and the other 1/2 thru
my Springfiels XDS. Both digested the ammo without fail.
significant from the both the XDS and a Series 70 Gold Cup.
Although the "heavy for the caliber" argument is a valid one to me overall, as a specialty ammo, I give it a thumbs up.
November 3rd, 2012 01:50 PM
I'd appreciate anything that lightens a Glock 30 mag full of 230 grainers, but I know the 230s will do the job if the time comes--which isn't good time to experiment.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
November 14th, 2012 01:51 PM
these rounds are amazing!!! I have them in my XDm 9mm and my XD .45 When PJ told me about these rounds I couldn't even wrap my head around them. After reading some of the Army's AARs and shooting a bunch of these rounds myself (I had to wait for PJ to send me some, way too expensive for my wallet) I don't think I will wanna carry anything else for defense. One of the AARs claimed a partial decapitation with just one round of the 78gr .45
November 14th, 2012 02:27 PM
I think I'll pass on these
“You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”
― Robert A. Heinlein,
November 14th, 2012 02:39 PM
They sound way too light for me.
"Was there no end to the conspiracy of irrational prejudice against Red Ryder and his peacemaker?"
Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”
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