5.56 vs. .45

This is a discussion on 5.56 vs. .45 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm Wiggity, I'd say that's a pretty bold statement. But if so, please enlighten me, I'm always up to learning something new. ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Wiggity, I'd say that's a pretty bold statement. But if so, please enlighten me, I'm always up to learning something new.

    Seems to me the best you can do is quote scripture from the bible of old FBI data and insult others opinion while only being able to repeat studies you have read and have adopted as your own knowledge.

    You will never, ever, read where I quote from studies or tests that others have done. What I say is what I believe from my own experience. I don't need anyone to do my thinking for me, especially a parrot.
    The ability to parrot information is not the same thing as understanding the information.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    Which brings me back to:

    Pistols are pistols.
    Rifles are rifles.

    The 5.7x28 is not a rifle round.
    Actually it's a rifle round. Pistol was made after.

    So you agree 5.7 is the best round since it's a rifle round that comes out of a pistol.

    I think you have touch faith in the 5.7. Great round, but i wouldn't compare it to a .223

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Wiggity, I'd say that's a pretty bold statement. But if so, please enlighten me, I'm always up to learning something new.

    Seems to me the best you can do is quote scripture from the bible of old FBI data and insult others opinion while only being able to repeat studies you have read and have adopted as your own knowledge.

    You will never, ever, read where I quote from studies or tests that others have done. What I say is what I believe from my own experience. I don't need anyone to do my thinking for me, especially a parrot.
    Good god. How does posting an informative article mean I am a parrot? You clearly cannot think these things through.

    Exactly what experience are you blabbering on about? How many people have you tested these rounds on to come to your conclusion?
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggity View Post
    Good god. How does posting an informative article mean I am a parrot? You clearly cannot think these things through.

    Exactly what experience are you blabbering on about? How many people have you tested these rounds on to come to your conclusion?
    Don't act like you are all of a sudden completely oblivious to this entire statement. I'm not going to let you off that easy, or back pedal. So I'll recap to refresh your memory, since you have suddenly forgotten.

    You stated that I was completely clueless about the yawing effects of bullets in relation to wounding performance. You attacked my opinion without provocation in a rude manner.
    So I asked you to share your knowledge and enlighten me, but I guess you forgot that too.

    As for my experience, it's something I don't like to put out there, or throw around. But since you really want to know, I was stationed in Quantico VA from 88-89, and while I did not directly have anything to do with the development of testing data, I did teach small weapons and tactics at the academy and the basic school, ( OCS).

    So I did have first hand information on specifics of various goals with respect to development of ammunition, and I have seen this information become more and more distorted over time.

    As far as my experience shooting stuff, let's just say I didn't get the assignment because I am pretty.

    So, now, I'll ask you again, please enlighten me on where I am so, what's the word, clueless as to wounding ballistics?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  6. #35
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    Rifle v pistol bullet terminal effects

    AFAIK - under the right circumstances, a rifle bullet has the potential to cause permanent wounds, via their more violent (compared to a pistol bullet) temporary stretch cavity

    In general, pistol bullets do not cause permanent wounds via their (relatively weak) temporary stretch cavity - they only wound tissue they actually touch

    Hopefully we can all agree on that
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    In for outcome.......I'm leaning with the glockman on this one. Experience trumps "science"any day of the week

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggity View Post
    Good god. How does posting an informative article mean I am a parrot? You clearly cannot think these things through.

    Exactly what experience are you blabbering on about? How many people have you tested these rounds on to come to your conclusion?
    That was not a very tactful statement.
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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Mattmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    That was not a very tactful statement.
    Strong internet bad boy......lol

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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattmann View Post
    Strong internet bad boy......lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    Well you know what they say...an armed society is a polite society.
    True story

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I can't get my head around the comparison of getting hit by a car and a temporary wound cavity.

    Either way, permanent results are final. And temporary is just that...temporary.
    I'd argue that the temporary wound cavity is actually quite permanent. It's also much larger because of the amount of air displaced by the bullet. I'm sure you've seen what a 5.56 wound looks like. I hit a prairie dog at 300 yards the other day with a .223 and it was split in half. I also had one that I shot with a .45 at close range. One clean hole. I'm not going to say that a rifle has more killing power, but I will say it has more killing potential.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    I'd argue that the temporary wound cavity is actually quite permanent. It's also much larger because of the amount of air displaced by the bullet. I'm sure you've seen what a 5.56 wound looks like. I hit a prairie dog at 300 yards the other day with a .223 and it was split in half. I also had one that I shot with a .45 at close range. One clean hole. I'm not going to say that a rifle has more killing power, but I will say it has more killing potential.
    I'd say your right. As long as that velocity is up there the results can be pretty spectacular. I can relate with that comparison. You can also apply that to using a 22lr vs a 22 mag on small game. Quite a difference.

    This is always going to be a point of debate, until people realize that it's simply two different ways of achieving the same goal, both with limits, advantages and vices.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Don't act like you are all of a sudden completely oblivious to this entire statement. I'm not going to let you off that easy, or back pedal. So I'll recap to refresh your memory, since you have suddenly forgotten.

    You stated that I was completely clueless about the yawing effects of bullets in relation to wounding performance. You attacked my opinion without provocation in a rude manner.
    So I asked you to share your knowledge and enlighten me, but I guess you forgot that too.

    As for my experience, it's something I don't like to put out there, or throw around. But since you really want to know, I was stationed in Quantico VA from 88-89, and while I did not directly have anything to do with the development of testing data, I did teach small weapons and tactics at the academy and the basic school, ( OCS).

    So I did have first hand information on specifics of various goals with respect to development of ammunition, and I have seen this information become more and more distorted over time.

    As far as my experience shooting stuff, let's just say I didn't get the assignment because I am pretty.

    So, now, I'll ask you again, please enlighten me on where I am so, what's the word, clueless as to wounding ballistics?
    So you have no personal experience with anything in the "real world" when it comes to wounding ballistics.

    Perfect, neither do I. Looks like we are both regurgitating. You, sir, have no more experience with wounding ballistics than I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IAm_Not_Lost View Post
    Well you know what they say...an armed society is a polite society.
    God bless Robert Anson Heinlein.

    The number of the Beast is a wonderful read...
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  16. #45
    Member Array Wiggity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I'd say your right. As long as that velocity is up there the results can be pretty spectacular. I can relate with that comparison. You can also apply that to using a 22lr vs a 22 mag on small game. Quite a difference.

    This is always going to be a point of debate, until people realize that it's simply two different ways of achieving the same goal, both with limits, advantages and vices.
    Back pedaling are we?
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