Originally Posted by 481 View Post
Simply your opinion.
Can you provide an actual source citation (another article, published academic paper, or professional journal) that supports your assertion as quoted above? I would really like to see an example of factual refutation of Wolberg's work since I see this claim made all the time and have yet to see any supporting documentary evidence.
Otherwise, no one can take this as anything other than your factually unsupported and uninformed opinion.
Please understand that I am not attempting disrespect towards you here. I am simply seeking an actual source citation for the claim you've made above.
Sorry for not getting back to this thread earlier. And no, I'm not annoyed with you . Anyway, I'll try and explain why I tend to frown upon Wolberg's article that pops up every now and then. It may be a little long so bear with me.
I'm not sure exactly when the Win 147JHP was officially adopted by the FBI, but my earliest sample round is dated '87. Also in my collection is one dated '88, one from an earily Win Super-X "Deep Penetration Subsonic" box and a fairly current ('08) USA brand load. All measurements are the same for all 4 loads; cavity depth, cavity diameter at the meplat and length of jacket cuts at the bullet tip. Esentially, they are all the same bullet. I even confirmed this with a friend who's a Winchester Rep in So.Cal. and he contacted his contact at Winchester who confirmed that the bullet used for their USA brand 147JHP load is the same bullet as the original OSM load.
Now, over the years, those in the shooting/training industry who have had access to shooting data involving the OSM bullet have reported this load as being an erratic performer in actual shootings, including underexpansion and overpenetration. In previous threads about this particular load, several GT members have noted, from actual experiences in investigating shootings, that the OSM is an erratic performer.
Now, having said that, I became aware of Wolberg's article about 5 years ago. After reading and re-reading it again and again, some questions came to mind that just doesn't jive with his findings, including:
If SDPD had been using the OSM load for roughly 4 years, why was only 28 bullets examined? I'm sure they had more shootings than that. It's very unlikely that they had only 28 shootings that ALL expanded as reported by Wolberg. No, I'm pretty sure that they had more shootings than 28 (though I have no personal proof of that), so what about any other shootings in which the bullets didn't expand or possibly even overpenetrated on torso shots? Where are they at? If you're going to evaluate a load, all shootings to the torso must be included; the good, the bad and the ugly. Not just the picture perfect rounds that meet your given criteria. With as many people who have seen or had actual hands on experience investigating shootings that have reported erratic performance from this round, it's highly improbable that SDPD never had such expansion/excessive penetration problems. But without access to all SDPD shootings, we will never really know just how effective or ineffective the load was for SDPD.
And the use of ballistic gel. There's no way that gel can recreate human tissue. The shooting of gel in a labratory at a given temperature at a given distance cannot recreate the distances and angles of actual shootings. Not realistic at all.
But what really caught my attention was the fact is that Wolberg's article didn't touch upon how really effective this load is/was. When the BGs were shot were they immediately incapacitated or did it take multiple shots to bring them down? It really doesn't mean much looking at expanded bullets dug out of corpses if it took multiple bullets to immediately stop someone. All Wolberg's report states is that the OSM bullet when shot into calibrated 10% ballistic gel mimics bullets removed from corpses.
But those are just my observations and musings regarding this load, Wolberg's article, and from the reported experiences of others who have first hand knowledge about this load and it's use.
But the thing that confirmed my suspicions I had years ago about Wolberg's article regarding cherry-picked bullets was when two people, who are both GT members, on another gun forum while in a heated discussion, one of them who knew Wolberg confirmed that the Coroner did in fact cherry-pick the bullets used in Wolberg's article.
I'd rather not toss that GT member under the bus for confirming my suspicion. So you can either take my word for it or you can dismiss it as bolony. But I think that those of you who have read my comments over the years should realize that I'm very straight-forward in my comments and I'm not out to pull the proverbial wool over peoples' eyes.