Am I being irresponsible by carrying FMJ ammo ?

This is a discussion on Am I being irresponsible by carrying FMJ ammo ? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by R.W.Dale Your mistake is the assumption that this energy transfer actually does anything Playing devils advocate here, but your comparison between two ...

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Thread: Am I being irresponsible by carrying FMJ ammo ?

  1. #31
    Member Array Nebraska12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.W.Dale View Post
    Your mistake is the assumption that this energy transfer actually does anything
    Playing devils advocate here, but your comparison between two individuals, with one wearing a vest, does not apply. The variables are too dissimilar to compare. The vest in itself proves a barrier that will absorb energy. So no, they are not being effected by the same.
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.W.Dale View Post
    Your mistake is the assumption that this energy transfer actually does anything
    If it's not the energy of the traveling bullet being transmitted that crushes the tissue, what is it then that does?

    Seems clear that: a bullet with zero energy (ie, just layin' there) has no ability to do damage; a bullet that's zipping along with ~100 ft-lbs of energy can't compare to effects of one with ~400 ft-lbs of energy; a bullet that still retains energy after exiting a barrier hasn't spent its energy yet; and a bullet that has no energy left prior to exiting a barrier has spent all its energy inside the medium. Call it energy "transfer" or whatever, that energy has to go somewhere, and it doesn't all "disappear" as frictional heat.
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  4. #33
    Member Array bruce272's Avatar
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    I feel that the recent shooting in NYC in front of the Empire State building makes a great case for NOT carrying FMJ in an urban environment.
    The rush to blame the two officers for lousy aim was proven somewhat wrong, considering the perp was hit ten out of 14 rounds. So most of the wounded bystanders were hit by 9mms doing a total penetration through the BG. Ergo, they mostly by these through and through rounds.

    And I really wish that the news media would stop blaming the LEOs for bad shootings without being there or understanding the first thing about gunfights.
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  5. #34
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    Carry hollow points. I see no reason to carry FMJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If it's not the energy of the traveling bullet being transmitted that crushes the tissue, what is it then that does?

    Seems clear that: a bullet with zero energy (ie, just layin' there) has no ability to do damage; a bullet that's zipping along with ~100 ft-lbs of energy can't compare to effects of one with ~400 ft-lbs of energy; a bullet that still retains energy after exiting a barrier hasn't spent its energy yet; and a bullet that has no energy left prior to exiting a barrier has spent all its energy inside the medium. Call it energy "transfer" or whatever, that energy has to go somewhere, and it doesn't all "disappear" as frictional heat.
    Whether the quantity you are concerned with is "energy" or "momentum", it is not how much of it there is, but what is done with it.

    Give ya an example-

    A 200 pound guy stands on a platform that is 5 feet high and jumps to the ground twice. In both instances, he will have the same kinetic energy and the same momentum.

    The first time he does so, he bends his legs as he lands. He is uninjured.

    The second time he does so, he locks his knees and remains stiff-legged as he lands. Obviously, he sustains injury to his knees, ankles and hips.

    It's all about time- and strain-rate dependence and hitting something "important".
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  7. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with carrying FMJs if that's your preference.

    Personally, I use Gold Dot and Critical Defense for my carry and HD handguns, I would definitely recommend them.
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    You guys still aren't grasping that the energy transfer means nothing to the target.

    Assume a bullet expands to .60" and does not exit the body resulting in total "energy transfer"

    Are you guys actually convinced that's more effective than a bullet that expands slightly less say .55" that makes it all the way through?

    Energy is merely bullet fuel. It does nothing by itself as its released into the body. My vest analogy is valid, the armor wearer indeed experiences as much energy transfer as is possible with soft armor yet comes out completely unimpaired
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    I'll stick to HPs except for in my LCP during the colder months where I switch to FMJ flat points.
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  10. #39
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    Ive had FMJ underpenetrate a few times, and had JHP overpenetrate a few. At the end of the day, i carry JHP because it was designed to expand and cause more tissue damage. With FMJ its much more likely to pass through. In a SD situation, I think its better that a HP underperform and for me to die than for a FMJ round to pass through and hit a bystander. just my opinion.

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    My take is just as long as you know what is behind your intended target then yes it is OK to use ball ammo. Now in a zombie apocolypse scenario, we all are hoping that when shooting ball ammo, it will go through 2 or 3 or more with one shot destroying and killing them !!! God Bless

  12. #41
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.W.Dale View Post
    You guys still aren't grasping that the energy transfer means nothing to the target.

    Assume a bullet expands to .60" and does not exit the body resulting in total "energy transfer"

    Are you guys actually convinced that's more effective than a bullet that expands slightly less say .55" that makes it all the way through?

    Energy is merely bullet fuel. It does nothing by itself as its released into the body. My vest analogy is valid, the armor wearer indeed experiences as much energy transfer as is possible with soft armor yet comes out completely unimpaired
    .higher energy transfer means higher penetration, more vitals being hit and more PAIN. And that being said, ive been shot with FMJ and DO NOT recommend it. FMJ will get the job done, but you risk overpenetration to a degree.

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    "And I really wish that the news media would stop blaming the LEOs for bad shootings without being there or understanding the first thing about gunfights."

    I tend to agree. What would have been the public and media response if the LEOs hadn't fired because the "streets were crowded" and this guy opened fire? Me? I'm not voluntarily dieing because someone happens to be in the background.
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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    . And that being said, ive been shot with FMJ and DO NOT recommend it. FMJ will get the job done, but you risk overpenetration to a degree.
    Now That's a new point of view I've not seen brought to the table.

    Mind if I sig quote you?

  15. #44
    Member Array lilmule's Avatar
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    Fmj is generally preferred if shooting smaller calibers-22lr,25acp,32acp in particular if winter heavy clothing.
    Even a 380 has below min fbi stat penetration if jhp is used.That said even 32 acp can have or meet that 12 in min with correct ammo with fmj.
    Bullet placement and yes can be over penetration with hand cannons of large caliber with fmj yet it is what armies are limited to,possibly one of the several reasons they went to smaller calibers.
    I shoot same ammo for practice as carry and dont use zombie rounds or any of the frag rounds as they dont often expand or preform as intended.I keep one jhp in tube rest are fmj,yes 32 acp.Backups is pt22 22lr.,25acp Titan,peashooters all over the place can reach one with either hand front or back.
    Im small cant hide a large pistol,have a truck to carry the 45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.W.Dale View Post
    You guys still aren't grasping that the energy transfer means nothing to the target.

    Assume a bullet expands to .60" and does not exit the body resulting in total "energy transfer"

    Are you guys actually convinced that's more effective than a bullet that expands slightly less say .55" that makes it all the way through?

    Energy is merely bullet fuel. It does nothing by itself as its released into the body. My vest analogy is valid, the armor wearer indeed experiences as much energy transfer as is possible with soft armor yet comes out completely unimpaired
    Well that's not exactly correct. The vest dissipates the energy transfer as well as prevents the projectile from penetrating. The person wearing the vest receives some of the kinetic energy as it passes through the vest, but soft body armor is designed to spread that absorbed energy across a wide area, thereby reducing the amount of blunt force trauma to the point where it does not produce any internal damage. There is more than enough kinetic energy released in the average firearm to do serious, if not fatal, damage to an unprotected body.

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