Originally Posted by gottabkiddin
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Depending on what firearm^^^^^^^^^^
you are talking about.
Will it shoot a quality HP reliably?
Will you be shooting through 3 layers of courduroy, 2 sweaters, 2 flannel shirts, a tee shirt and a parka that could be used to hike up Mt. Everest?All things considered, I personally use Speer GD or Golden Saber or Federal HST.
If I knew I was going to shoot through a whole bunch of heavy clothing, I would opt for the FMJ.
Originally Posted by TX expat
Obviously a wisenheimer!:image035::haha:
It's true! I read it on the internets!
Originally Posted by oneshot
Irresponsible, hmmm, that may be asuming a lot. The assumption seems to be the BG is getting hit the bullets are passing through and going where? Causng collateral damage?
What if? What if the BG is not hit, our bullet(s) miss and that hi-tech. high velocity hollow point round hits a bystander ? Lets say hits him in the wrist. Might now lose a hand. Would that hand have been saved if a FMJ had been used?
The point I am trying to make is in something as dynamic and totally unprediceable as a gunfight the word "irresponable" could rear its ugly head in ways one would have ever imagined.
If we go armed about our day we should use the ammuunition ( and firearm ) that gives us the best chance with the most confedence of hitting our intended target.
Adrenaline dump, tunnel vision, moving targets, darkness, someone moving to the wrong spot at the wrong time, maybe all these things happening at the same time while one is firing their weapon.
Irresponsible for using FMJ's ?
No I don't think so if that's what gives you confidence.
Like the man said "the best fight is the fight you that you can avoid."
ask your self this... how many police/swat teams carry FMJ?...
ill go with none... and for good reason...
As usual, "it depends" on a lot of variables, many of which have been explored in various posts. I'll just try to reinforce two points and offer one more that is a slightly different take on the matter.
First, as others have said, what type of threat do you consider most likely? In other words, what's your best estimate of the job you'll ask your bullet to do? Try to match your ammo to that task. You don't have a crystal ball, so you can only do your best & then should sleep the sleep of the just at night.
Second: you know what you can afford to practice with, what's reliable in your weapon, what's available to you. Most critical characteristic of any defense ammo is that it goes bang and cycles your gun; otherwise, it's of little use.
Finally, I'd like to emphasize a point we all take for granted just a bit too much sometimes: namely, you're the good guy, trying to help & protect yourself and the society we cherish by standing up to violent criminals as best you can. Do your best & we all wish you the best. For all practical purposes, all military, police and civilian handguns were loaded with solid projectiles until quite recently in any case, so you're not violating all traditions and customary practices & showing brazen disregard for innocent bystanders by using ammo that sometimes overpenetrates, but often has done a fine job. Especially since expanding bullet designs are likewise something of a hit or miss proposition. You're using ball ammo, not wildly tossing hand grenades amidst crowds of innocents just to save your own hide :-)
The only irresponsible guy in the scenario is the violent criminal. You're a good guy with a conscience, doing the best he can. We need more like you. It's the same reason I wouldn't consider YOU at fault if a home invader cut himself on window glass while breaking into your home, or slipped on the icy steps you "failed" to clean up the morning after a snowstorm and broke his miserable neck. There's no way on God's green earth that I would call you irresponsible for using the ammo the Army has required me, and millions of others, to use for more than a century.
Too many of our fellow citizens are quick to blame the good guys for every contingency, rather than placing the blame squarely on the violent criminal who HAS CAUSED THE ENTIRE PROBLEM.
I've never been elephant hunting, but everything I've ever read indicates a .375 H&H or larger are preferred, not small diameter. Also, today's premium defense loads expansion is related to bullet design more so than velocity. The Winchester Ranger T 147 grain 9mm, Federal HST 147 grain 9mm, and Remington Golden Saber 147 grain 9mm are all just under 1000 fps and do expand, as does the 230 grain Ranger T .45 ACP, or Federal 230 grain .45 ACP HST HP, again both under 1000 fps. 1200 fps is not required for expansion.
Originally Posted by Nebraska12
I sure miss SuperVel ammo from the 60s, thats what our dept carried it was great stuff. Back then all the ammo came 50 per box
Go to SGAmmo.com, most premium defensive loads are 50 rounds per box, depending on caliber ranging from $25 to $32 per 50.. Golden Sabers are 25 rounds, but the 147 grain 9mm sells for about $11.95 per 25. They have great service, reasonable shipping rates. There are other good vendors online offering similar pricing for 50 round boxes.
Originally Posted by shadowwalker
A miss is a miss. I won't matter if it's a hollow point miss of an FMJ miss. Either one will do the job.
just to add my 2c, I choose to carry Hornaday Critical Defense FTX's (filled expansion tip). its supposed to be the best of both worlds so to speak. the tip is filled with a polymer so the bullet will still expand once through any clothing or other light barriers.
Hornady Critical Defense .40 S&W 165 gr FTX: SIM-test* w/denim - YouTube