SHTF: 22LR vs .223

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Thread: SHTF: 22LR vs .223

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Boarding up in a house is a great idea....until the flaming arrows hit it.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Being able to carry 500 rounds of 22lr in your front pocket of your cargo pants sound a lot better than carrying 500 rounds of 5.56 on your back.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  4. #48
    Member Array JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I presume you are an American, a citizen of 'The Home of the Brave.' Try thinking that way.
    Preparing for a prolonged SHTF scenario in which chaos reigns and government authority disappears means you have
    NO faith in our institutions or our people. It means you have no faith in your local police and fire fighters; none in
    the National Guard, Zero in the National Military, little for our civic leaders and religious leaders.

    Aside from the paranoid aspect, the thought itself shows a shameful view of your countrymen.
    You may want to climb off that horse of yours. Seriously, have you ever heard of Hurricane Katrina?? That wasn't even a disaster on a nation-wide scale and look at the utter disarray and turmoil that caused. Stealing, rape, murder, all these things happened even inside a FEMA controlled facility. In fact, even law-enforcement officers were seen looting!

    Our military and people involved in search & rescue are second to none. But, I suggest you ask the people of New Orleans and surrounding areas who suffered through Katrina about how much faith they have in our institutions. To call in to question someone's faith in America for wanting to prepare is downright absurd, unsound, and borderline offensive. Being self-reliant and prepared as much as possible instead of having to rely on your Government, having the ability to provide and protect yourself during a time of crisis instead of asking others who wear a uniform to do it for you is what makes a strong American in my eyes. You call this having a "shameful view", I call it being a MAN.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    Seriously, have you ever heard of Hurricane Katrina?? That wasn't even a disaster on a nation-wide scale and look at the utter disarray and turmoil that caused. Stealing, rape, murder, all these things happened even inside a FEMA controlled facility.
    This part was made up by the news media, who believed it only because of the race of most of the people inside those facilities. In truth? Stressed, but no violence.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    You may want to climb off that horse of yours. Seriously, have you ever heard of Hurricane Katrina?? That wasn't even a disaster on a nation-wide scale and look at the utter disarray and turmoil that caused. Stealing, rape, murder, all these things happened even inside a FEMA controlled facility. In fact, even law-enforcement officers were seen looting!

    Our military and people involved in search & rescue are second to none. But, I suggest you ask the people of New Orleans and surrounding areas who suffered through Katrina about how much faith they have in our institutions. To call in to question someone's faith in America for wanting to prepare is downright absurd, unsound, and borderline offensive. Being self-reliant and prepared as much as possible instead of having to rely on your Government, having the ability to provide and protect yourself during a time of crisis instead of asking others who wear a uniform to do it for you is what makes a strong American in my eyes. You call this having a "shameful view", I call it being a MAN.
    And Katrina was not a SHTF scenario necessitating 25 000 rounds and various types of weaponry to survive. It never got close
    to that. In hindsight, it has been proven that much of what was reported as chaos and anarchy in NOLA was hype by News Media. Other than by drowning or illness, how many people lost their lives in that episode? How many were
    shot dead other than by rogue LEOs who are now serving jail time?

    Here's some additional perspective--- in the mid 1960s, maybe 1966-- NYC lost all power as did much of a wide swath of
    the NE and Canada. Crime went down. No one knew what was happening, but people behaved themselves, even the thugs.
    Take heart. There are plenty of good people around.

    Oh, another example. The influenza epidemic of 1917-18. Look it up. There were huge numbers of ill and dead piling
    up, there was a World War ongoing, but we didn't get anarchy from it. And, plenty of folks were quite well armed by the
    standards of the day; this was before short barrel shotguns and full autos became difficult to impossible to own.

    SHTF scenarios of the kind some folks talk about here are possible, anything is possible, but hardly realistic matters.

    Again, how about thinking like Americans instead of scared animals. It is still The Home of the Brave.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    This part was made up by the news media, who believed it only because of the race of most of the people inside those facilities. In truth? Stressed, but no violence.
    All of those things happened outside of the camp. In fact, several people (including police officers) in New Orleans are in prison right now for murdering people during the disaster. Looters abounded, and people were shooting at helicopters, each other, and the police... so you are right, about that not happening in the FEMA shelter, but it surely happened on the streets.

    Five former New Orleans cops sentenced in Hurricane Katrina shootings | Fox News
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  8. #52
    Member Array JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    This part was made up by the news media, who believed it only because of the race of most of the people inside those facilities. In truth? Stressed, but no violence.
    Unfortunately, you're wrong. Initially the reports of violence inside the government controlled facilities were exaggerated, yes, however it has since been long confirmed that inside the Superdome there was death resulting from a drug overdose, a homicide, a suicide, and there were in fact two sexual assaults. At the Convention Center, there was one homicide and sexual assault.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    Unfortunately, you're wrong. Initially the reports of violence inside the government controlled facilities were exaggerated, yes, however it has since been long confirmed that inside the Superdome there was death resulting from a drug overdose, a homicide, a suicide, and there were in fact two sexual assaults. At the Convention Center, there was one homicide and sexual assault.
    All horrid, but nowhere near a SHTF situation in which large amounts of ammo and weaponry would make any difference.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  10. #54
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    I prefer a 16.6" barrel AR.

  11. #55
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    You have spent a lot of $ on your arsenal, especially in such a short time span. I have fired both the .223 and the .22 versions of the AR and I can say there is a major difference. The only benefit I see of the .22 is it is very cheap to shoot as you noted and fun for the kids. I prefer paying the up-charge and firing the .223 or 5.56 NATO round as I find the accuracy to be more of a benefit when at the range. If needed for a defensive situation I would also go with the .223 hands down.
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  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    All of those things happened outside of the camp. In fact, several people (including police officers) in New Orleans are in prison right now for murdering people during the disaster. Looters abounded, and people were shooting at helicopters, each other, and the police... so you are right, about that not happening in the FEMA shelter, but it surely happened on the streets.

    Five former New Orleans cops sentenced in Hurricane Katrina shootings | Fox News
    Thought you meant the two sports places, whatever (I don't follow sports). There was no evidence that anyone actually shot at any helicopters that I heard of. The rest of your post is accurate, to the best of my knowledge.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I didn't read the entire thread, but I will answer your question like this.

    I have half a dozen or so .22 rifles, and zero .223 rifles in my safe. I personally don't have any use for the .223, and no I don't want to start a caliber war. I simply have other calibers that work better for what I want them for. I have pistol caliber carbines to go along with my pistols. I have larger caliber hunting rifles for hard hits and long range, and shotguns for that type of work if needed.

    A well placed .22 caliber bullet will kill many things, including human sized prey if need be, so I would opt to keep the .22 and the other guns you already have if I were you.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    And Katrina was not a SHTF scenario necessitating 25 000 rounds and various types of weaponry to survive. It never got close
    to that. In hindsight, it has been proven that much of what was reported as chaos and anarchy in NOLA was hype by News Media. Other than by drowning or illness, how many people lost their lives in that episode? How many were
    shot dead other than by rogue LEOs who are now serving jail time?

    Here's some additional perspective--- in the mid 1960s, maybe 1966-- NYC lost all power as did much of a wide swath of
    the NE and Canada. Crime went down. No one knew what was happening, but people behaved themselves, even the thugs.
    Take heart. There are plenty of good people around.

    Oh, another example. The influenza epidemic of 1917-18. Look it up. There were huge numbers of ill and dead piling
    up, there was a World War ongoing, but we didn't get anarchy from it. And, plenty of folks were quite well armed by the
    standards of the day; this was before short barrel shotguns and full autos became difficult to impossible to own.

    SHTF scenarios of the kind some folks talk about here are possible, anything is possible, but hardly realistic matters.

    Again, how about thinking like Americans instead of scared animals. It is still The Home of the Brave.
    You keep espousing this idea of thinking like what you believe is an American and Home of the Brave, yet nothing I've read from your two posts sounds either American or brave. In fact, it reeks of naivety and cowardice. You list events from the past where society and order didn't break down and somehow thats supposed to convince me that it can never happen? You also attack the OP for his collection of ammunition and suggest that he somehow has no faith in his country or fellow citizens. First, I don't see how stockpiling ammunition and other supplies has anything to do with that or with acting like "scared animals" as you put it. Sorry, but some of us here feel obligated to ourselves and to our family to be prepared for a serious crisis. Some of us here feel it is our own responsibility to provide for the safety and security of our family. Some of us here are not so ready as you are to hand off those responsibilities to the Government.

  15. #59
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    I have had this argument with my parents. They don't see any emergency lasting more that 45 days. They feel our government would be there to take care of them.

    There is no argument not to prep. Currently food and ammo is relatively plentiful and cheap. Soon that might not be the case. I've bought over 2000 lbs of food. It will store for 10+ years. It will be eaten and buy purchasing in bulk I saved a money. We have a few canned goods that we always eat, I purchased enough for our average eating habits to last 3 years. 1500 gallon water storage tank for $700. Im trying to prepare for the worst.

    Best case senario I my mind is hyperinflation of the likes we have never seen before on a global scale. The very people that caused the "crisis" will step in with a new world currency and the starving masses of sheep will give up liberty and freedom for the promise of "society" again.

    Our founders warned us this very thing could happen. Many people won't be around to see how or what America evolves into. I plan to stick around.

    The whole argument over .22LR vs .223 is trivial and we only pursue it because our basic needs have been meet. Americans are soon in for a rude awakening. Very few people are self reliant, I'm not. Soon we will be brought to our knees. The question is will we stand up and fight? I will.

    If you don't want to prep that's your business. Just don't make it my problem with hard times come.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    You keep espousing this idea of thinking like what you believe is an American and Home of the Brave, yet nothing I've read from your two posts sounds either American or brave. In fact, it reeks of naivety and cowardice. You list events from the past where society and order didn't break down and somehow thats supposed to convince me that it can never happen? You also attack the OP for his collection of ammunition and suggest that he somehow has no faith in his country or fellow citizens. First, I don't see how stockpiling ammunition and other supplies has anything to do with that or with acting like "scared animals" as you put it. Sorry, but some of us here feel obligated to ourselves and to our family to be prepared for a serious crisis. Some of us here feel it is our own responsibility to provide for the safety and security of our family. Some of us here are not so ready as you are to hand off those responsibilities to the Government.
    Lets separate two issues. I don't much care what legal to possess weaponry someone has or what amount of ammo
    they amass and keep. That is their business.

    I do care what their motive for doing such is. For example, if it is to engage in some form of criminality, it becomes everyone's
    business.

    In this thread the stated purpose of collecting that ammo and the weapons is to protect ones self in a SHTF scenario.
    If that makes you feel safe, fine. I guess that is better than popping pills to assuage your fear. But doing this sort of preparedness doesn't make you brave, or prepared.

    It shows an unrealistic view of history, of our society, and of the effectiveness of our institutions.
    It shows a level of unwarranted anxiety totally out of proportion with our present global strength; the actual state of
    our economy; and our institutional preparedness for our collective defense.

    Yes, local disturbances be they riots, earthquakes, floods, ice storms, can bring lots of misery and even small pockets
    of violence. The likelihood of a society destroying cataclysm in which you will need thousands of rounds; months
    of stored food, is near nil. Amongst the things to worry about a SHTF cataclysm is way below the chance that you will be in an auto accident,
    get cancer, have a house fire, be killed in a commercial airliner, struck by lightening, win the big lottery.

    Our nation has had two historical events in which things might have become (and appeared to those present as) that cataclysmic SHTF scenario.

    1) The British invasion of Maryland, Viriginia and DC itself during the War of 1812;
    2) The Sherman march through Georgia.

    In the latter, you see a lesson on the ineffectiveness of armed resistance against an overwhelming military onslaught. In the former you have the determined bravery celebrated in our anthem.

    Fill your stores with whatever gives you comfort, but keep thing in perspective too. Our country isn't about to fall apart or to be rendered to dust by outside forces.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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