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SHTF: 22LR vs .223

76K views 94 replies 48 participants last post by  Ghost1958 
#1 ·
What's your opinion on the effectiveness of .22LR vs .223 for a suburban environment in a SHTF senario? I just picked up a Rugar 10/22 with 25,000 rounds of ammo. My reasons for going with the .22:

Cost, .22 LR .04 cents per round/.223 about .40 cents a round.

Weight, in a bug out situation I could carry much more .22LR in my BOG.

Easy to shoot, this will be the fallback for my wife to protect herself and the kids if I go down. I have six 25 round mags and will take her to the range soon.

If sooting indoors or in a urban environment the overpenatration of .223 would be fearsome.

These were just a few reasons I choose the 10/22.

I also have 2 mossberg 12 gauge with 3000 rounds "00" buck. 9mm/40 cal 18,000 rounds, 4000 rounds of .357 mag with S&W 686 and Marlin 1894.

Of course the real answer to my question is have both platforms available to shoot. I really want a mini 14 with 10,000 rounds but my first safe is full and I've put close to $20,000 in guns an ammo in it over the last 2 months. Better to spend my dollars while they still have worth. If time permits I will add the mini 14. Just curious if you would feel comfortable with a 10/22 in a SHTF seniaro.
 
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#5 ·
Enjoy what you have, but really, a suburban SHTF situation??? Watching too much fantasy.
And even in a real situation, how long do you think you really would last? Not long enough to use your 25K I suspect.

Your short longevity won't be due to poor caliber choice, either. Just to chaos in an overly armed environment.
 
#6 ·
You have $20k worth of weapons and ammo in your home and you are asking if a 10/22 would be a good option for SHTF scenarios? I'd have to say that it would really amount the specific application, as opposed to the generic 'SHTF' as a general situation.

I'd say that a .22 has its place but I don't think it would be my 'go to' weapon for home defense, even for a 'gun for the wife and kids' type of situation, unless it was my only option. Sure they are great for small game, range fun and in a pinch could be used for self defense, but your shotty would serve most defensive situations much better than a .22 would.
 
#7 ·
What's your opinion on the effectiveness of .22LR vs .223 for a suburban environment in a SHTF senario? I just picked up a Rugar 10/22 with 25,000 rounds of ammo. My reasons for going with the .22:

Cost, .22 LR .04 cents per round/.223 about .40 cents a round. It is most definitely cheaper.

Weight, in a bug out situation I could carry much more .22LR in my BOG. Yes, also lighter.

Easy to shoot, this will be the fallback for my wife to protect herself and the kids if I go down. I have six 25 round mags and will take her to the range soon. .223 has VERY little recoil. More than a .22LR yes, but compared to almost any high powered rifles, it has very, very light recoil. A women and children could easily handle it.

If sooting indoors or in a urban environment the overpenatration of .223 would be fearsome. Common misconception. The .223 actually has very poor penetration capabilities with typical ammo. You'll likely need to buy special ammo designed for barrier penetration. The .223 will have less penetration through barrier than some handguns rounds. Now you use a round designed for penetration, you will see what some consider "over" penetration. There are some many options available in .223 for various different purposes. It will make your head hurt just reading about them.

These were just a few reasons I choose the 10/22.

I also have 2 mossberg 12 gauge with 3000 rounds "00" buck. 9mm/40 cal 18,000 rounds, 4000 rounds of .357 mag with S&W 686 and Marlin 1894.

Of course the real answer to my question is have both platforms available to shoot. I really want a mini 14 with 10,000 rounds but my first safe is full and I've put close to $20,000 in guns an ammo in it over the last 2 months. Better to spend my dollars while they still have worth. If time permits I will add the mini 14. Just curious if you would feel comfortable with a 10/22 in a SHTF seniaro.
My answers in red.

The .22 is a very useful tool. It works great as a bare minimum. The .22 especially a semi-atuo .22 is not nearly as reliable as a centerfire firearm. It's good as a last resort, but if you're going to be planning on using it as a primary weapon, I'd think otherwise, personally. A .22 will work for small game and even against bad two legged creatures. But I'd much prefer a high powered rifle for serious, primary defensive use.

I have a 10/22 and I use it basically as a plinking toy. That wouldn't stop me from using it if something were to happen to my other weapon choices or they weren't available at the time.

Just my opinions of course.
 
#8 ·
everyone should have a .223 rifle, a .22 rifle, a 7.62x 39 rifle, a scoped rifle in a long range caliber (30-06, .308, lupala, etc.), a 9mm, .40, .45 handgun, and a 12 gauge shotgun. those are the most commonly available rounds, and in a real shtf scenario you will be scavenging ammo more than you will be firing your "stockpile".

now i don't have all this, but if i was realistically preparing for an apocalypse (which i'm not) that is what i would do.
 
#9 ·
.22 is a fine game-getter and (if silenced) a close-in defensive or offensive weapon. It lacks punch, has little 'suppression' capability, and against hard targets is next to worthless. Having a mix in your BOB and arsenal is good, but if I only had one, it would not be a 10-22.
 
#10 ·
There are degrees of SHTF. Both would be useful, depending.

But not having been through a SHTF situation beyond a few days ...

  • If just a temporary riot, crime, and/or civil breakdown deal, in a reasonably-functioning suburban/city type environment I'd think the .223 would be preferable.
  • But if in a true, long-term SHTF situation involving the complete breakdown of society in which energy, transportation, food production and everything else goes out the window (for years, like as not), then I personally would prefer a .22LR. It'll suffice for small-game hunting, it can stop an aggressor from a reasonable distance. It's slight cost could help ensure that thousands of rounds could be retained, and carried long distances if need be.
 
#12 ·
Do you have to pick just one or the other? With a handful of 10/22s and a pair of ARs in the armory, I'm bringing at least one of each. The number depends on how many people I've got with me and the mode of transportation.

The .22 rimfire is a small-game getter inside of 75 yards, and an OK defensive tool. But if I have to "reach out and touch" some thing or someone, or there's a need to stop an aggressor right now, the AR is the tool (of those two) that I want.
 
#15 ·
Better to spend my dollars while they still have worth.
Location
California
Just a thought ...

Might be worth considering to direct some of the funds toward one obvious alternative: getting out of "Dodge" (California) while the gettin' is good, depending on your time horizon. Translation: getting your guns away before the grabbers make many (most?) of them useless or criminal to possess.
 
#16 ·
While the .22 has a place in a SHTF scenario, being a primary defensive weapon, isn't 1 of them. I'd opt for the Ruger Mini 30 over the 10/22.
 
#17 ·
I have thought this over for years, and come to the conclusion that a 22 is as good as anything else for this purpose. In Recon, we used to say that if we get into a fire fight, something wrong. Well, guess what? Things have and do go wrong. But the idea in a survival situation is not to stand and have shoot outs, its to get out of harms way thru peel off technique and evasive measures. A 22 will do this just fine.

Ever try and eat a squirrel hit with a 223?

Id say a 22 will do just fine in most any scenario, and much better for multiple purposes than a center fire cartridge.
 
#18 ·
I have thought this over for years, and come to the conclusion that a 22 is as good as anything else for this purpose. In Recon, we used to say that if we get into a fire fight, something wrong. Well, guess what? Things have and do go wrong. But the idea in a survival situation is not to stand and have shoot outs, its to get out of harms way thru peel off technique and evasive measures. A 22 will do this just fine.

Ever try and eat a squirrel hit with a 223?

Id say a 22 will do just fine in most any scenario, and much better for multiple purposes than a center fire cartridge.
Lots of wisdom in the part you put in bold. That is why, except possibly for barter (or investment), laying in huge
amounts of ammo won't help in a SHTF situation. You'll likely not live long enough to use much of it.
 
#19 ·
Wha?? You are worried about over penetration in the even of a total societal collapse?

And if you ever needed 25,000 rounds, you would probably run out of water and food before you went through that many rounds.

Add to that your other arsenal....

Seriously, what kind of scenario are you preparing for?

I'm not judging - hey, whatever floats your boat. Just seems like some parts of the calculus don't make complete sense.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the replys guys. Kinda what a thought I'd get, mixed batch. My reasoning to the wife to fill the safe was emergency preparedness. She's from Japan and knows about disaster, also has lived in the states long enough to know our society won't be civil in situations like her country has endured.

Basically I see hard times ahead with a worthless currency were dependent on. I'm trying to hedge inflation. I have three years worth of dried goods food storage. 25 lbs bag of rice for $20 now, get it while you can. Also stocked up on ammo. 13,000 rounds of FMJ for the 9mm/.40 cal. I figure that would last 5 years or so target shooting OR IF SHTF I'll be glad I stocked up.

Im set for self reliance for a few years, we're all dependent on the government to some degree or another and I don't trust them with my safety anymore.

I've got places to bug out to but with the kids home is best if possible. If things continue to get worse in CA I'll look into moving to Nashville as that's were my mothers at.

I knew the answer to my question was to get anither riffle. My wife won't understand but it has to be done.
 
#21 ·
Several things:

1.) I am jealous of your ammo storage!

2.) .22 is fine for some applications, but in a real SHTF scenario, you are going to want a bigger caliber rifle as a primary (.223, .308, 7.62X39), and a lot of friends with service-caliber rifles. If you stay by yourself, all of that ammo, and all of those guns are going to be in the hands of people who had lots of "friends" with guns... after they take them from your hands.

You are in CA, though, so larger caliber rifles only have 10 round mags, and thanks to new legislation, they are impossible to change quikly, so you may have made the best choice for your area.

3.) All the people that are ragging on you for having too much ammo either wish they had as much (I fall into this category), or are going to be the ones complaining when ammo prices go up in the next few years.

4.) Are 25 round mags legal in CA for .22s?
 
#22 ·
For the wife and kids, I'd go for a carbine in a pistol caliber, starting with the old M1 Carbine. The Kel-Tec Sub-2000 folds small enough to fit in a briefcase and comes in several varieties that can use different handgun magazines. I don't know if they are accurate enough to hunt small game, though. (That's just a mild suggestion because I have used the .22LR for hunting ground squirrels out at 100 yards. Head shots only because hitting them anywhere else meant they got down the hole. A ground squirrel head is about the size of a human eye.)

I suspect you are going heavy on gear and light on training. You need skills to go with the hardware, and they do not come off a store shelf. Long passed time for you and family to take a trip to Utah or Idaho "for vacation" and visit one or more of the combat training sites that accept civilians.

A million dollars worth of guns and ammo isn't going to do you a lick of good if you don't have even a penny's worth of skills.
 
#24 ·
The 10/22 is fine. Add a suppressor and it's better.



Sent from my Galaxy S2
 
#25 ·
Get Smith, Ladies & Gentlemen: While exploring in the 50's in the then unknown Jungles of Quintana Roo, next to British Honduras - now Belize - we found that the lowly .22 cartridge was the perfect medium of exchange. Money was simply not acceptable. In the more remote areas, a trip to the nearest source of supply was a week or more away, so every single bullet was negotiable barter materiel.

In a long breakdown of society, such as you seem to visualize, it would holdup here as well as it did down there.

Just remember that if it were known that you had a large supply of more powerful ammo, you would become a target for that alone, but for some reason the lil .22 isn't considered in the same light..

Side issue, living off of the country is possible for only for small no of people in a given range / time. The Indians in our past history found this out, and often had pitched battles over territory, so much for the idyllic co-operative life in native America, it was a cutthroat existence.

We quickly found that out. It took roughly 1/2 a day in new country to get enough to feed ourselves, and after a few weeks, it would no longer supply us. And we were just two people.

Don jose de La Mancha
 
#26 ·
One more thing, you might want to get some parts and maybe a second 10/22, because if it breaks, you have a nice club, and 25,000 rounds of ammo you can't use
 
#27 ·
With the other firearms you mentioned, I think you're covered yourself well.

I would consider the .22 as more of a game-getter and back-up of last resort, while the .223 would be more defensive. Personally, I'd like to have both. .223 for defense; .22 for survival.
 
#32 ·
I have considered getting a .22 conversion kit for my AR, but unless you have a 1:12 twist rate, the barrel's twist rate just isn't suitable for the lightweight projectiles of .22lr, which require a slower twist rate to be accurate. Because of the gas port in the barrel, you're also limited to copper plated rounds. You don't want to shoot bare lead bullets past that gas port. With this in mind, I would rather spend a little more money and get a Ruger 10/22. 2 guns are better than 1.

The .22 is an extremely important caliber to have for survival, especially if you have quiet sub-sonic rounds. I would think a suppressed 10/22 with sub-sonics would be a wonderful tool. However, thinking that a .22 is superior to a real fighting rifle in a fighting rifle caliber is foolish. .223 is an excellent round for home defense and even with M193 FMJ ammo, it will penetrate much less than FMJ handgun ammo while having far superior stopping power because of tumbling and fragmentation. Using ballistic tipped or soft point ammo would decrease penetration even more. If you need more penetration, you can get bonded soft points or solid copper bullets like the TSX. Watch these videos: Rifles for Home Defense - YouTube You can and should have a .22 AND a .223. Not just one.

FWIW, I buy factory .223 for around .30 cents per round. I reload .223 for .20 cents per round.
I suggest getting a quality AR-15 over the Mini-14. It will cost a little more, but you'll have a HUGE variety and availability of parts, magazines, accessories. The AR-15 has a better reputation for accuracy than a Mini-14/30. Seriously, almost every firearms enthusiast and LE agencies have an AR-15. They are EVERYWHERE.

If you do leave your home, you aren't going to be able to pack your whole arsenal and all of your ammo so I think the borderline ridiculous amount of ammo you're buying would be pretty pointless. You will have to move quickly, and draw little attention.
 
#30 ·
22lr/223

First I would tell you do not buy so many rounds in 22lr as the brass sweats and it jams unless you use it in a bolt.
You will have to wipe every round before you shoot.This caliber is readily avalible.I would not trust 22 lr unless I was doimg my work up close and personal.I do not have the training that Mossad offered to their agents.I do own a bushmaster in
223/556 verison.The first time I shot it I could not believe it was the main battle rifle of our great country.The ar rifles have like a shock asborber in them an you can feel it contract when you fire it. I've used metal case ammo and just about all
types avalible to civilians.556 in almost the same as 223 it has higher pressures.I would use my 223 over 22lr just because
it has more stopping power.
 
#31 ·
"First I would tell you do not buy so many rounds in 22lr as the brass sweats and it jams unless you use it in a bolt."

Huh? I've got some very old .22s and have yet to find any "sweat."
 
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