SHTF: 22LR vs .223 - Page 6

SHTF: 22LR vs .223

This is a discussion on SHTF: 22LR vs .223 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 20k of .22, and 15k of 9 and 40? Dude. How much debt have you accrued building up this doomsday arsenal? Just wow....

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  1. #76
    Member Array Jesters Dead's Avatar
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    20k of .22, and 15k of 9 and 40? Dude. How much debt have you accrued building up this doomsday arsenal? Just wow.
    SFCDan and Hopyard like this.


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think mules might work. Cars and trucks, not so much when there is no electricity to run the gasoline pumps as would certainly be the case in a SHTF deal.

    Anyone know how to handle a mule train?


    No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
    Cory1022 likes this.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesters Dead View Post
    20k of .22, and 15k of 9 and 40? Dude. How much debt have you accrued building up this doomsday arsenal? Just wow.
    He could be Bill Gates, in which case, its not even a drop in the bucket... but I doubt it.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post


    No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
    Well I recently spent about 16 nights in such establishments and the only mule I saw was cleverly disguised
    as a desk clerk.

    Suggested reading-- Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant [U.S. President, for those who only recently graduated from
    what we call High Schools] or Grant by JE Smith. As a Lieutenant during the Mexican War he had to find a way to
    get military supplies through TX to Mexico City during combat conditions. No Hummers allowed.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  5. #80
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesters Dead View Post
    20k of .22, and 15k of 9 and 40? Dude. How much debt have you accrued building up this doomsday arsenal? Just wow.
    No debt here, just cleared out most of the emergency fund before the emergency occurred. Like I said. My immediate fear is hyperinflation. If it gets bad enough society could shut down but there would be pain for most before that point. I can hold up in my house for over a year without the grid.

    I could have bought 10 oz's of gold but what would I do with it in a SHTF senario? I'm set with food and ammo to barter with others. I'll trade you an oz of gold for a $20 bucket of rice. That's the advantage of being prepared. There are so many things that we use daily, why not stock up in advance if you can. I'm getting a few 55 gallon drums of fuel delivered to my house. I'm not a fan of my I independence relying on OPEC. If gas goes up over $10 a gallon overnight at least I'll have a reserve to prepare for what else will follow.

    I know I will shoot those 13,000 rounds of FMJ. I got them shipped for less than $12 for a box of 50, why not buy in bulk now? Do you see ammo prices dropping drastically soon?

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Well I recently spent about 16 nights in such establishments and the only mule I saw was cleverly disguised
    as a desk clerk.

    Suggested reading-- Personal Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant [U.S. President, for those who only recently graduated from
    what we call High Schools] or Grant by JE Smith. As a Lieutenant during the Mexican War he had to find a way to
    get military supplies through TX to Mexico City during combat conditions. No Hummers allowed.
    That was my failed attempt at humor. Check out the link to the Holiday Inn Express commercial, and it may make more sense.

    Holiday Inn Express - Nuclear Reactor - YouTube

    I'm a big history buff, so I will definitely check out the suggested reading.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  7. #82
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesters Dead View Post
    20k of .22, and 15k of 9 and 40? Dude. How much debt have you accrued building up this doomsday arsenal? Just wow.
    that's a lot of money that could have been used on better things.

  8. #83
    Member Array Cory1022's Avatar
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    I will say this, I wish I bought a bunch more bricks of .22 back when I could get them for $9.99. Two kids and I are ripping through a heckuva lot of it.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

  9. #84
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    If we compare the economy to a cargo ship, the original hull has either rusted away or been sold for scrap. All that's left is an oversize, vaguely boat shape, pile of bubble gum and bandaids. Even the baling wire has been scrapped. There is nothing to give the economy any strength any more. It's all gone. We float only due to the frantic bailing of the movers and shakers in the economy. The ship will go down, fast and hard, when they lose control.

    Gold and silver are for the recovery after the crash. Both are artificially low due to the false precious metals on paper, "futures", telling the market that there's, who knows? A thousand times as much as there really is? Silver is a bargain if the post crash world has advanced tech, silver is just too useful as an industrial metal and it's value should go up quite a bit. Gold, not posed to gain as much if tech recovers, it might be a little better than silver if tech does not recover. Get both, just in case.

    Anything physical of value can be taken from you by bandits or politicians. Good luck trying to find something safe to invest in. Enough diversity should get /something/ through, though. Quality of life is going to stink between now and then. (We might see as much damage and exploitation as the Confederacy suffered during and after the Civil War, and that took over a hundred years to heal.)

  10. #85
    Member Array AK_Brian's Avatar
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    Disregarding whether or not the world around you would dissolve into total anarchy, the .22 is considerably underpowered for SD work compared to the .223. While it's easy to shoot and plentiful, an AR shooting .223 or 5.56 is really not that bad either. As others have probably mentioned, parts and ammunition are plentiful, and while a .223 would destroy a squirrel beyond use; your primary stated purpose was self defense, in which case I'd rather pack an AR than a 10/22.

    25,000 rounds at $0.04 works out to be a thousand dollars. A thousand dollars at $0.40/round of .223 is still 2500 rounds of ammunition, which isn't so heavy you couldn't pack it if needed. It's also plenty to see you through a brief period of unrest. If you're standing around in a prolonged gun-fight, I think things are already about as bad as it can get. Having 22,500 rounds more of .22lr than .223 isn't going to make a difference at that point.

    I may not have the experience most of the people here have...but in terms of self defense, which I'm assuming means anti-personnel, I'd just rather have a firearm and round that was meant for that purpose.

    edit> Also, while I know every persons situation varies and it's easier said then done: If you had that much money to spend on prepping for the end days in California, you could have gotten OUT of California and been in a place where your population is less dense, with more game, and of course less gun control. If you're in broke-ass California but making the kind of money to build up like this, you probably have a job and career field you could easily replicate elsewhere. Not trying to preach, but the odds are already heavily against you in California - if I was -truly- worried and planning for a SHTF scenario, step 1 would be to not be living in California when it happened.

  11. #86
    New Member Array WithAnX's Avatar
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    If you're planning on shooting those at people in this SHTF scenario, I can't imagine being able to fire 300 rounds without taking some yourself (assuming you'd only be firing at armed targets), let alone 25,000 rounds. Maybe if you're preparing for a zombie attack where they won't be shooting back at you (complete fantasy).

  12. #87
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithAnX View Post
    If you're planning on shooting those at people in this SHTF scenario, I can't imagine being able to fire 300 rounds without taking some yourself (assuming you'd only be firing at armed targets), let alone 25,000 rounds. Maybe if you're preparing for a zombie attack where they won't be shooting back at you (complete fantasy).
    The 10/22 is definitely not my go to gun for a SHTF senario. I have many other effective firearms and rounds. IF I survived the first 6 months of SHTF and depleted my other 20,000 rounds then a 10/22 would be effective as most others would not have ammo.

    In all reality at a minimum the 10/22 will be great fun with my son. As I said, I feel soon many of you mocking me will regreat not stocking up on food/ammo while it was cheap and plentifully. To each thier own. I don't feel my ammo stores are wasted money.

  13. #88
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    After expending all those rounds in defense, what are you going to do with all those bodies and wounded? Has anyone ever thought of that. The smell would be terrible.
    Semper Fi
    "Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute

  14. #89
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkCo1 View Post
    After expending all those rounds in defense, what are you going to do with all those bodies and wounded? Has anyone ever thought of that. The smell would be terrible.
    I would make scarecrows out of the first few looters to hopefully deter others. In all reality disease from death and lack of sanitation would be more deadly than the zombies. At some point you have to have cues to bug out. When I see smoke from house fires that would be one clue to load up the trailer or head out on foot worst case senario.

    Most likely it won't get that bad, (I hope). If it does I have some sort of plan and provisions. Most will say, I never thought this would happen, followed by I wish I had prepared.

  15. #90
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    If you need more than 200 rounds to resolve an issue, better have them used by friends who can shoot.

    Ammo usage comes up off and on in survival groups and use-net "alt.survival" and "misc.survivalism". The two use-net groups can be searched with Google. Consensus usually boils down to 200 to 300 cartridges being the outside maximum you'll be able to use in a single firefight you have a chance to survive (ignoring full auto weapons), and that usually assumes a defensible position, like the home bunker.

    People usually start talking about military load out, but there are several factors there that most of us are not effected by. Full auto firearms, team mates to cover your back, supposed to go out and look for trouble, young men is excellent health, etc.

    Any who wants to delve further into how much of what to have on hand, should go over to:

    SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA

    Fernando (FerFAL) is an Argentinian who was there for the 2001 collapse. His early writing is excellent (even if the English is a bit fractured), and the more recent looks good. There for a while, he was lured into talking too much, beyond what he could say for sure. He describes, among other things, how family members would be kidnapped and tortured in front of a sealed home to get the family to agree to open the doors so the bandits could come inside and torture and kill the rest of the family. Really worth reading and thinking about if you have family.

    He also has comments about how much ammo and which firearms to use for daily carry when/where a bandit might target you for no more than the gun at your waist.
    Cory1022 likes this.

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