SHTF: 22LR vs .223 - Page 7

SHTF: 22LR vs .223

This is a discussion on SHTF: 22LR vs .223 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard And what makes you assume the road will be passable, that you won't be stopped by armed looters along the way. ...

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Thread: SHTF: 22LR vs .223

  1. #91
    Member Array tdrussell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    And what makes you assume the road will be passable, that you won't be stopped by armed looters along the way. That your
    vehicle and all your stuff won't be stolen or burned.

    See, the problem with trying to prepare for these doomsday scenarios is, amongst many things, the highly variable
    nature of what might actually occur.

    Meanwhile, consider this, right now in this world and in modern European nations, there is 25% unemployment or more.
    There may be unrest, but there is no chaos.

    During our Great Depression we had 25% unemployment +, and though there was great social dislocation, we did not
    devolve into anarchy.

    There was no anarchy in Japan as it neared the end of its rope after being twice nuked. Chaotic & anarchic SHTF scenarios
    are partly a function of the character of the people enduring the adversity. Even in Germany there was only brief
    lawlessness in isolated sectors as the country was invaded from all sides, and much of that was due to poor behavior
    by Russian troops.

    I presume you are an American, a citizen of 'The Home of the Brave.' Try thinking that way.
    Preparing for a prolonged SHTF scenario in which chaos reigns and government authority disappears means you have
    NO faith in our institutions or our people. It means you have no faith in your local police and fire fighters; none in
    the National Guard, Zero in the National Military, little for our civic leaders and religious leaders.

    Aside from the paranoid aspect, the thought itself shows a shameful view of your countrymen.

    Even at the worst of the cold war, when people were building bomb shelters, I do not recall many (if any) discussions
    of a post catastrophe dog eat dog world///or as some here would have it, man shoots man world.

    the self-discipline and character of the p
    Quoted for posterity. Hopyard for President.

  2. #92
    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    Preserved for posterity:
    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    You keep espousing this idea of thinking like what you believe is an American and Home of the Brave, yet nothing I've read from your two posts sounds either American or brave. In fact, it reeks of naivety and cowardice. You list events from the past where society and order didn't break down and somehow thats supposed to convince me that it can never happen? You also attack the OP for his collection of ammunition and suggest that he somehow has no faith in his country or fellow citizens. First, I don't see how stockpiling ammunition and other supplies has anything to do with that or with acting like "scared animals" as you put it. Sorry, but some of us here feel obligated to ourselves and to our family to be prepared for a serious crisis. Some of us here feel it is our own responsibility to provide for the safety and security of our family. Some of us here are not so ready as you are to hand off those responsibilities to the Government.
    Could not have said it better myself. I'm almost done prepping. Adding a WASR 10/63 with 7000 rounds of 7.62x39. Will all of my preps gauarntee my survival? NO. Will I be glad a gathered them in a SHTF situation? YES. You folks that assume society will always function under rule of law can continue to live in your state of normalcy bias. Me, I will continue to prepare for my families survival and comfort. I have over 80 hours of training I'm signed up to with a local NRA/LEO instructor that has been with blackwater in Afganistan.

    Those of you mocking me ask yourself this. If the power grid went down for one of many reasons and the supply chain along with water seased to flow how could you fare. It's great if you have training and skills but if you have no provisions you will have to steal and kill to provide for your family. DON'T come to my house.

  3. #93
    New Member Array JoerFromSC's Avatar
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    Well my 2 cents...

    Knowing what little I know, and being as uninformed as I am, I would leave your current location as soon as possible to avoid loss of stuff. Strange how we people go into the internet, where we totally lay out our plans, stuff, and privacy and allow the powers that have the power, to follow our trail. I have been on websites that told me where (town) I was, and what my provider name is. If simple websites can do that, imagine what those intent on your demise in a SHTF, have and will be doing? I believe that privacy and internet are impossible. Every site, every word every thing we do, is monitored and watched.

    So if you are really concerned get to somewhere, and don't tell anyone. Of course if you feel the need to seek advice off the internet, get a throw-away smart phone from a carrier and get your info, and toss the phone.

    Personally, I think that right now someone has found your name, address, and entered it into their database as a target to acquire at the SHTF time.

    Quote Originally Posted by GetSmith View Post
    What's your opinion on the effectiveness of .22LR vs .223 for a suburban environment in a SHTF senario? I just picked up a Rugar 10/22 with 25,000 rounds of ammo. My reasons for going with the .22:

    Cost, .22 LR .04 cents per round/.223 about .40 cents a round.

    Weight, in a bug out situation I could carry much more .22LR in my BOG.

    Easy to shoot, this will be the fallback for my wife to protect herself and the kids if I go down. I have six 25 round mags and will take her to the range soon.

    If sooting indoors or in a urban environment the overpenatration of .223 would be fearsome.

    These were just a few reasons I choose the 10/22.

    I also have 2 mossberg 12 gauge with 3000 rounds "00" buck. 9mm/40 cal 18,000 rounds, 4000 rounds of .357 mag with S&W 686 and Marlin 1894.

    Of course the real answer to my question is have both platforms available to shoot. I really want a mini 14 with 10,000 rounds but my first safe is full and I've put close to $20,000 in guns an ammo in it over the last 2 months. Better to spend my dollars while they still have worth. If time permits I will add the mini 14. Just curious if you would feel comfortable with a 10/22 in a SHTF seniaro.

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  5. #94
    New Member Array MiamiDiver7's Avatar
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    I'd opt for the 22lr simply for the fact that, like the Mosin, I can buy a few cheap, lots of ammo and arm a small army if need be. For the price of a good AR, I could buy 3 Ruger 10/22s and a few thousand rounds for the whole household and then an extra for back-up or a buddy to pick up. And, as stated before, ammo is a great barter tool and I would find it easier to trade off a few 22lr when I have thousands instead of .223 that I have much less of. As for defensive abilities, sure the AR has more power and range, but I don't plan to travel alone much in a SHTF situation...there will always be a volley of 2 or 3 Rugers, which can be very lethal and/or very persuasive.

  6. #95
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think mules might work. Cars and trucks, not so much when there is no electricity to run the gasoline pumps as would certainly be the case in a SHTF deal.

    Anyone know how to handle a mule train?
    Yeah I do. I dont need 1200 lbs of food because I can kill my own, know how to preserve meat without refrigeration, have lived with electricity before it was run thru here. I can actually build a fire in the rain too.
    I can put down as many deer with a 22 as I can a 223. Do it with a bow too. If I want to reach out and touch a BG I can do it a lot farther with a 243 than I can a 223.
    Ive seen FEMA in action. If it wasnt for volunteer groups getting on the ground with water food and other staples a lot of folks would have died long before FEMA got there. And when the did they made a mess of what was already a organized supply chain of donated things that only needed them to continue the supplies. I got FEMA s number from expierence.
    If I have to bug out and Im an old geeze so im not going to be humping some 200 lb pack you bet itll be on a horses back.

    And where I and my family goes nobody is gonna know and likely wouldnt want to be there anyway but we will do just fine there. Why because unlike a lot of younger folks we know how to live without needing the stuff we have now.
    Wont be as comfortable and wont be flicking switches to get the lights on but we did it before all that came along out here in my lifetime. In fact my dad set the power poles thru here with guess what a team of horses.
    I dont plan on fighting armed trained soliders. If we are in that shape theyll be busy enough fighting off every other sand pile country that wants to destroy us to worry about lil old me.
    The occasional robbers looters whatever if they found us? Well dont guess id have to play nearly as fair with BGs after a national collapse as I do now now would I?
    So maybe Hop figures if everything collapses he wont live long enough to shoot up a 50 pack of 22s. I figure ill live out the rest of my natural life pretty well.
    You dont have to believe a train is coming. Itll run over you anyway.

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