Frankly........you're under gunned.
This is a discussion on Bear loads? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I will be travelling into a very rural area of N.C. in a few weeks to a friends property. There are bears roaming around, and ...
I will be travelling into a very rural area of N.C. in a few weeks to a friends property. There are bears roaming around, and on previous trips, we have seen them 50-60 feet away. However, they USUALLY want to get away from us ASAP.
So, what if, one attacks or meanaces us?
Note: I am not looking to "hunt" one, but will defend us against one.
I wil be carrying a 9 MM with a 4" barrel and/or a 642 38.
Choices of ammo?
FMJ or hydrashoks for the 9? or
158 Gr lead SWC reloads, or 125 gr SWCJHP winchester for the 38?
To be honest, that is probably the perfectly matched set of loads since you'll probably never need them. This page has a lot of resources: Living with Bears in Colorado | Colorado Parks and Wildlife
Study these and you'll be fine. Study "Outdoors in Bear Country" about mid-page.
If you feel compelled to carry something, get a large bottle of Bear Spray. You'll be fine.
"He went on two legs, wore clothes and was a human being, but nevertheless he was in reality a wolf of the Steppes. He had learned a good deal . . . and was a fairly clever fellow. What he had not learned, however, was this: to find contentment in himself and his own life. The cause of this apparently was that at the bottom of his heart he knew all the time (or thought he knew) that he was in reality not a man, but a wolf of the Steppes."
For the 9mm, the Federal 147 gr FMJFP @ 1000 fps should penetrate to a depth of 32.1 inches* and the .38 158 gr SWC loaded to ~850 fps (arguably a little optimistic from a 642) will get you about 30.7 inches of penetration* in soft tissue.
In most cases, the bear spray option suggested by Rock and Glock (cool screenname) is your best and most realistic bet.
*Predicted using the Schwartz bullet penetration model.
The Stats you quote have nothing to do with penetration on a bear.........have dropped many and have skinned some with old wounds of .357 caliber slugs that never penetrated out of the fat layer......as i said......your under gunned.....but better than a punch in the nose.
Absolutely the best Bear Spray is GUARD ALASKA - I'll include a link to J&L Self Defense Products. They are a fantastic company. You may buy from them with confidence and they ship FAST!
GUARD ALASKA is not really cheap but, you're paying for the best. What you are paying for is a large can of a special formulation of spray that is solvent based so that it instantly cuts through the oily skin of the bears face.
Also...the can itself is constructed of Stainless Steel so that there is no typical "shelf life" because the contents do not react with the can material which eventually happens with the more common Aluminum cans.
Animal Defense Sprays and Products - Pepper Spray - J & L Self Defense Products
Guard Alaska 20% ultra hot pepper spray has proven so effective repelling bears, it is the only one registered with the EPA as a repellent for ALL SPECIES of bear!
This bear spray is perfect for campers and hunters and should be in every RV safety pack. When traveling to the different camp sites around the US, you never know what you will encounter. Some places have wild dogs and coyote while others have mountain lion and bear. The good thing about this bear spray is it will drive away all these creatures. It will also drive away 2-leg predators if need be. It is absolutely the most effective and powerful bear defense spray available today.
SPRAY PATTERN AND DURATION testING conducted by BACKPACKER
MAGAZINE showed GUARD ALASKA BEAR REPELLENT to spray 20 feet and last a full 9 seconds compared to the other products, Bear Guard, UDAP, Bear Pepper Mace, sprayed in excess of 30 feet and to only last four seconds, Counter Assault, in excess of 30 feet and last 7 seconds.
FIELD AND STREAM MAGAZINE published a article stating to spray a 1 to 2
second blast if the bear was within 100 feet of a person an additional 2 or 3 second blast at 40
feet and then exhaust the can if the bear kept coming. This was all nine ounce cans. You can see all other products would be out of product if the user did what was recommended. GUARD
ALASKA would have 4 to 5 seconds of product left in the can.
GUARD ALASKA BEAR REPELLENT opens the pores of the skin and mucous membranes
to let the active ingredients be effective. The carrier has a specific gravity greater of that
than water, so it works on wet bears. It displaces water.
* 9 Ounce Super size with Shotgun fogger delivery.
* Range of spray: Approximately 15-20 feet.
* Dimensions: Height: 8-3/4" x Width: 2"
* An invincible 20% ultra hot pepper spray.
* Absolutely the most effective and powerful bear defense spray available today.
* This product has proven so effective that it is the only one registered with the EPA as a
repellent for ALL SPECIES of bear!
* Environmentally safe! Does not contain flammable or ozone depleting substances.
* Our formula is scientifically proven superior, and endorsed by the Alaska Science & Technology
* Six years of extensive testing in the wilds of Alaska. (QK addition ~ actually it's much more than 6 years now, this product info is out of date)
The Schwartz soft tissue/bullet penetration model does it's job quite well, thank you very much.
Looks like what you want to carry is designed to piss the bear off? I carry 9mm, but in bear country, I would also carry bear spray. XDm with 19+1 would be what I went for 2nd, 1st would be the bear spray.
As previously mentioned, the most practical and effective option would likely be bear spray.
If you do carry a 9mm for bear protection, load it with FMJ flat nose 147gr. You want a well built, heavy bullet that will penetrate deeply.
Buffalo Bore has a new .38+p load called the Outdoorsman. Thay say the hardcast bullet will penetrate a bear's skull. Still, as others have said, it would be a good idea to have the bear spray as well.
If the need arises ... use the 9 mm.... to shoot someone else in the leg so they can't run, then run like hell ....
ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha......... to start with -- amount of BODY MASS before you even get to any major organs, number and depth of muscle mass, bone mass / thickness, skull thickness...... just to start with.......... and they can run a lot faster than any of us..... have MUCH larger teeth that can chew thru most bones , and have nice long claws that they use to rip an Elk, deer, etc. wide open .....otherwise , there are really no differences at all ..... really, go with that one and good luck.Originally Posted by 481;
the famous words of the last guy who got eaten / killed by a bear : " I've never had one attack me yet...... "
things to take a long :
* bear spray
* a bigger gun, or someone who can't run and has a very bad limp.
I've been around black bears a lot ..... and had 2 attempt to attack, and 1 that essentially did. I always kept a 30-30 rifle real handy.
I don't think you have brown bear in No. Carolina ... do you. Do you have to worry about Cougars in No. Carolina or wolves ????
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
When I was in Montana a coupla years ago on vacation in the mountains I almost stepped in some poop..I think it was bear poop because it had these little bells in it and it smelled a lot like peppers...
The best bear defense I can think of is to take someone with you that you can out run..just sayin
You're overly concerned. As you've stated, they tend to avoid people. Make your presence known.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
I camp in Montana in the summer. My New Super Blackhawk 44 mag is in the camper and with me on fishing trips ect. Double tap 320 gr. hardcast flat nose I feel properly armed.
You state that there is, "BODY MASS before you even get to any major organs," then go on to say, "number and depth of muscle mass" which is redundant at best. Is there some other soft tissue before you get to any major organs that only bears possess?
I've shot quite a few bears myself and have yet to see this "mysterious 'other' soft tissue" you allude to.
You also note that bears, "have MUCH larger teeth that can chew thru most bones , and have nice long claws that they use to rip an Elk, deer, etc. wide open". How does that effect a bullet's ability to penetrate the soft tissues of a bear?
Last edited by 481; November 10th, 2012 at 04:32 PM.