357sig Speer Gold Dot questions...
This is a discussion on 357sig Speer Gold Dot questions... within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; From what I always understood... Speer has 2 gold dot loadings in this caliber:
A 5 petal bullet at 1350fps dubbed the limited penetration round ...
November 10th, 2012 07:32 PM
357sig Speer Gold Dot questions...
From what I always understood... Speer has 2 gold dot loadings in this caliber:
A 5 petal bullet at 1350fps dubbed the limited penetration round and commonly found in stores in 20rnd boxes but also 50rnd boxes online.
And also a 6 petal bullet at 1375fps used by a lot of LE. (product 54234) This Load only comes in 50rnd boxes.
I was looking at ATK's wound balistic load comparison data and noticed the load they show tested for the 357sig is the 1350fps load (53918) (50rnd box) But what gets me is in the pictures... It is clearly a 6 petal bullet.
I have read by many that product 53918 is the same 1350fps round that you find in 20 rnd boxes in stores (product 23918)
But judging by ATK's pictures... These are clearly 3 different rounds.
Does anyone know what the real story is? Everything I find online points to two different loadings being sold. But this seems like there may be three....
November 13th, 2012 07:40 PM
Well I emailed Speer to find out. The response I got said that the bullets are all different by part number. What I am curious about is if the nose cuts are the same on the 54234 bullets used as the 53918 ammo. Anyone have a box of both to compare by chance? Or a box of the 53918 ammo? I have a box of the other (54234). I'm thinking they use the same 6 petal bullet loading in two velocities for these loads. And they obviously sell a 5 petal gold dot bullet in 20 rnd boxes in stores to the public. (23918)
Federal and Winchester do similar things so this wouldn't surprise me.
Anyone have a box of the 53918 or both to compare the nose cuts?
November 13th, 2012 08:03 PM
I have BOTH.
I have different #'s from those you cite.
The 50 rnd. LE box has the # 54234
The 25 rnd. box has the # 23918
The rounds from the box marked LE ARE six petal
The rounds from the plain 25 rnd. box are five.
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M&Pc .357SIG, 2340Sigpro .357SIG
November 13th, 2012 08:21 PM
I'm sorry. I wrote the wrong product number in my last post. I meant 54234 and not 53234. I will correct that. The 20 rnd box you mention with the 5 petal is actually a 20 rnd box I believe if we are talking about the same thing (23918) could you double check for me?
Originally Posted by oneshot
You can also buy 50 rnd boxes with the product number 53918. Look at sgammo. I'm trying to figure out if it is using the same 6 petal bullet as the 54234 gold dots but just loaded at 1350fps instead of 1375.
Thanks for catching my mistake with the product number 54234 by the way. I appreciate it. I will correct it now.
November 13th, 2012 08:37 PM
Well I just heard back from speer. There are three different part numbers for bullets being loaded in this caliber. Interesting. 2 6 petal designs in boxes marked As Law enforcement amunition. And obviously the 5 petal design they sell in the 20 rnd boxes marked personal protection.
I find it interesting there are only Gelatin test results for 53918 which is on ATK's website but not even their other LE ammo (54234). I always believed Speer had two different bullets for this caliber. It seems there may be three. I would love to see a pic comparing the nose cuts on the two fifty round LE marked boxes of ammo being sold or know if there any visable differances between the two bullets (54234 and 53918). I have heard 54234 was or is what the border patrol uses but I don't know for sure. I also thought 54234 was loaded slightly hotter as the other two are rated at 1350. I have read... Only online I'll admit that the 54234 is rated at 1375.
November 13th, 2012 09:28 PM
So, I am left wondering- are we to understand then that the 5 petal bullet is more prone to expand (thereby limiting penetration) than the 6 petal design?
Originally Posted by Rawah
November 14th, 2012 01:25 AM
Well here are test results from atk who owns Speer and federal from my understanding. Notice the 53918 load is 6 a petal bullet in the pictures. Just click the 357 sig load
Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Load Comparison
The only test I've seen of the 5 petal ( 23918) in gel was on YouTube from Tnoutdoors 9.
Would be nice to see two side by side tests.
Here is a link to the vid...
.357 SIG Speer Gold Dot Ammo test - YouTube
Looking at the two different test results I would say yes. I really wish we could get someone to do gel test with all three loads at the same time. I also wonder if the two LE labeled loading use this same bullet and just one runs slower for reduced velocity and faster follow up shot or something. I could see where some departments might prefer one with a tad less recoil. But then again The person I spoke with at Speer says the bullets have three different part numbers.
Hopefully someone will have a box of the 53918 ammo and can post a good pic of the bullet. I'll try and post one of the 54234 by tomorrow... It's about bed time for me.
November 14th, 2012 05:07 AM
Border Patrol uses 40 S&W,I don't know about manufacturer now,but they used to carry Remington hollowpoints,I don't have any boxes left,but they were pretty "Hot" since a friend had got a case of them and gave me a few boxes to try out
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November 14th, 2012 09:45 AM
My Misake. I was thinking of Texas highway patrol and im not positive thats correct either. Here is a thread I found talking about a 25fps velocity differance between the two LE loads (54234 vs 53918) Also a good picture showing the LE version 54234 And the 5 petal version 23918.
357 SIG LE GD Duty Ammo - Glock Talk
Also a poster stating that the 53918 and the 23918 both use the 5 petal bullet.
I would love to see a pic of a bullet from a box of the 53918 to confirm which bullet design its using. The more research I do... The more things I find that confuse me it seems.
November 14th, 2012 10:10 AM
This thread seems to confuse me more now.
Gold Dot 357sig 53918 or 54234 - AR15.Com Archive
Some believe the 53918 and 23918 both use the same 5 petal bullet loaded to 1350fps. The only differance being 20 rnd and 50 rnd LE boxes. And then 54234 uses the six petal bullet at 1375. But if that's the case... Why does ATK's wound balistic workshop show a 6 petal bullet? I'm guessing the two LE marked 50 rnd boxes both use a 6 petal bullet just one at 1350 and one at 1375.
Of course... This is speculation by what I've read. If someone know different. Please correct me.
November 14th, 2012 11:06 AM
Here is a pic I found showing the 53918 LE load is in fact a 5 petal design.
53918 gold dot - Google Search
I guess if this is correct... I have the answer to my Question.
And sorry for all the posts this morning. Promise I'm on my last cup of coffee for a while...
Also for what its worth. I remember reading a post by Mas Ayoob saying that the 54234 load is the round that has earned most of the street cred in LE shooting incedents. If that is the case... I wish Speer would market the 6 petal version for the civilian market directly from them so it was easy to find in stores like the 23918 5 petal bullet. Regardless... I can now pick either one depending on how much penetration vs exspansion I want. I dont doubt both are great bullets. But if I wanted limited penetration... I may consider some other rounds like hst for example at this point.
I know corbon is exspensive and there cup and core designed jhp is not a newer design compared to a lot of others. But they do also offer the DPX which does petal beautifully. And part of me does want to support a company that doesn't try to limit it's newest most advanced bullet/ loadings to LE and Military only. I understand why other companies like Speer, federal, and Winchester do this... But if It's good enough for LE to protect me and my family.... It should be good enough for me to protect myself and my family with also. I wish Speer would offer the 6 petal version in stores to us civilians directly even if it's in 20 rnd boxes like they do with their 5 petal design.
I am still confused that ATK website shows a 6 petal bullet in the test pictures for product 53918 but the other links and pics I've found online show it is a 5 petal bullet.
November 14th, 2012 07:00 PM
Double Tap offers the six petal Gold Dot in the Bonded Defense line.
It is also 50-150 fps faster than the Speer load, depending on your gun.
Like the equally impressive Cor-Bon 125 grain Sierra, A real Hot Tamale of a load!
Know that most of the LE stopping power results with .357 SIG are from duty guns,
like the five inch Glock 31 and P226.
some people have problem with the high prices of Double Tap and other smaller companies.
However, I have a real problem with LE ONLY, or what I call Elitist Ammo.
There is no problem with getting equal or above level performance from DT.
They now come in 20 round or 50 round boxes.
When in doubt, Gold Dot!
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November 16th, 2012 09:17 PM
I did some wetpack testing yesterday with:
5 petal Speer gold dot 23918
6 petal Speer gold dot 54234
Remington golden saber bonded
I dug through everything and found as much as I could have hoped. I hope to have some pictures ready and will post a thread hopefully tomorrow with what I found.
I've never seen this many different types of premium self defense type ammo in this caliber shot into the same material at the same time and recovered so I found it interesting to compare them side by side.
November 17th, 2012 12:20 AM
I had to check what I had. I get my ammo from a LE shop, 50 round boxes. 54234 is the part number, marked LEO ammo.
To be plumb honest, it's a 357 SIG. Fired from my 31 or 32, it's gonna do the job, be it the six petal, faster LEO stuff or the five petal, lethargic civilian stuff. The only real difference I see is 20 rounds for 20 bucks vs 50 rounds for 30 bucks. LEO stuff is more economical.
My favorite cartridge. Fast, flat, and accurate. And expensive.
November 17th, 2012 11:50 AM
Thanks for checking multistage. I appreciate it...
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