December 7th, 2012 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by zonker1986
Even when fired from the stumpy barrel of a P3at, the Cor Bon 90 gr JHP (13.3") and Speer Gold Dot JHP (12.6") exceed the minimum 12" penetration standard. All expanded reliably as well.
One could presume that when fired from a pistol with a longer barrel, that the performance improves even more.
Personally, I like more penetration, since the desired depth is 15". Thus, I use FMJ-FP in .380, which get 16-17".
If you are going to make such statements on this forum to a newbie (based on number of posts) then please support your assertions with some facts.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
December 7th, 2012 09:54 AM
In the 357sig tests I've done... The Remington golden saber bonded seems to be a comparable penetrator to the DPX. They both don't expand as much as the PDX1, HST, 5 petal gold dot and some others.
Originally Posted by aus71383
When bullets of the same weight at similar velocities are fired... Frontal area is the deciding factor in penetration from what I have seen. The trick is to not only look at the recovered diameter... But try bending back petals to 90 degrees to get an idea of what maximum expansion was. Of the ones I did this to.... It was interesting to see most other tests many by the manufactures and some from gel tests online... That the rounds penetration compared to others coralated strongly to the expansion charictoristics of the rounds.
If I want penetration in 357sig... The golden sabor looks to be comparable to the dpx.... Although... I haven't done hard barrier testing yet...
A third place goes to the 6 petal gold dot for penetration. The 5 petal version has maximum expansion close to the HST from what I've seen for comparison and give up some penetration for extra expansion.
Guess I'll have to add some more pics showing this to my 357 sig wetpack test thread now....
December 7th, 2012 09:21 PM
I been a 115gr FMJ 9mm fan for decades. Can't see a reason to change.
December 8th, 2012 07:44 PM
In an emergency I will take anything over nothing in my arsenal ..... Be it a FMJ or HP , 22, 9mm, 12 Ga ....bottom line it's gonna hurt , then you will have to contend with my dog then me ....and what ever you do don't piss off my wife :) that's really gonna hurt .
January 26th, 2013 09:36 AM
Why is that? 9mm ball is notorious for having poor terminal effectiveness and overpenetrating. I don't think you have to buy into the next big whiz bang JHP design but you cannot discount modern ammo technology. A solid bonded load like Gold Dot or 147 gr Winny Ranger (RA9B) will really increase the ability of the cartridge to incapacitate someone rapidly.
Originally Posted by 1 old 0311
January 26th, 2013 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by 10thmtn
Thanks for the cool link, 10thmtn. One of the few places you can find FMJ data these days.
For the OP, any of these ought to be just fine for SD:
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) such as loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
Speer Gold Dor 124gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)
Federal HST 124gr JHP +P (P9HST3)
January 26th, 2013 04:13 PM
Unless your attacked by boneless chickens ballistic gel isn't a very accurate indicator. Most of the vital parts on humans are shrouded by some form of bony structure. Bones tend to greatly reduce penetration and you end up with far less than ballistic gel distances of penetration.
Stick with a field proven self defense round such as what law enforcement agencies use and you'll be good to go.
Speer gold dots seem to be one of the big runners in that class as do some of the Winchester rounds.
North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor
January 26th, 2013 04:24 PM
Re: 9mm ammo penetration
One of the counterintuitive things I've noticed with expanding bullets is that lower velocity does NOT necessarily mean less penetration. What sometimes seems to happen is the higher velocity round expands more and sooner causing it to slow down more rapidly and stop sooner.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
January 26th, 2013 06:46 PM
Yes, that is indeed often the case.
Originally Posted by nazshooter
January 26th, 2013 06:56 PM
And thus imparting more energy into the target......
Originally Posted by nazshooter
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke
January 26th, 2013 07:40 PM
Not much of a 9MM guy but if I were you I'd try to find some subsonic ammo. Less penetration and a little less tinitus : )
"These days I go down to Wal-Mart and they sell 'em in the back.
Some people wanna take 'em away, why don't you go bust them boys that's sellin' crack.
Guns, whether Remingtons 'er Glocks.
Come on man it ain't like I'm a slingin' 'em on the block." - Justin Moore
January 26th, 2013 08:27 PM
This is all you need to know about the "Overpenetration" myth.
Originally Posted by tokerblue
Do not downsize caliber. Do not go for unreliable frangible or "safety" rounds. Carry a service caliber, be sure of your target and what is beyond. When you pull the trigger it is because the alternative is imminent death.
January 26th, 2013 09:12 PM
IMHO the energy thing and "hydrostatic shock", at least in handgun rounds, is a non factor. Handguns are exceptionally weak comparatively. Rifle rounds do create large temp. cavities and that shockwave can damage tissue to an extent, but the primary wounding action is the crushing of tissue by the projectile.
Originally Posted by bombthrower77
Putting large holes in vital organs is what incapacitates. I am confident that a .38 Special, pushing 255 ft/lbs, would put someone down just as hard as a hard as a 500 ft/lbs .357 Sig, assuming all else is equal and shot placement is the same. A .50+ hole through your heart or lungs or head will incapacitate. All about shot placement.
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