Not really a scientific test but interesting...

This is a discussion on Not really a scientific test but interesting... within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just got back from visiting the extended family and I got to spend some time with Uncle Rick. Rick\'s a hell of a character. ...

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Thread: Not really a scientific test but interesting...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Not really a scientific test but interesting...

    I just got back from visiting the extended family and I got to spend some time with Uncle Rick.

    Rick\'s a hell of a character. He had a very rough youth filled with drugs, motorcycles, loose women, and lots of real life knife fights and shootings.

    He has next to no formal training. He is far more dangerous than most self defense gurus I\'ve seen.

    He has since cleaned up, found Christ, and is now 50 years old and married. But he knows much. He threatened 15 years ago he would use his immense knowledge of how to hurt people on me should I ever even touch drugs or pull any of the stunts he did as a youth.

    Rick did a little test with some North American Arms mini revolvers. I\'m sorry I didn\'t get to witness them personally but I found the results most interesting.

    I\'ve never really regarded .22 as anything more than better than my fist.

    Rick\'s test involed a mini revolver in .22 LR and another in .22 Magnum. Both were fired from 5 yards into a coconut, which is a reasonable approximation of a human skull. Both catridges tested were hollow points I think. He told me but I don\'t quite remember. The point is they were both the same type of configuration and the same brand; the only difference was the caliber. The ammo was new factory loads and both were fired from a 1 1/8\" barrel.

    The .22 LR round tore a small hole in the front of the coconut and a hole slightly larger than a quarter. A stream of milk erupted from the back, splashing about 20 inches away from the block of wood the coconut rested on at its furthest point.

    The .22 Magnum round made a similar sized entry hole, but the exit wound was roughly a fifth or maybe a fourth of the surface area of the coconut\'s shell. The milk dissipated in a fine mist, the furthest splash of which was about 4 feet from the coconut.

    Something to consider. I doubt anyone could reproduce this test and verify it somehow, but based on these two practice shots Rick sold the .22LR piece and kept the .22 Magnum for his daily carry piece.

    I may have to get me one of them some day...

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  3. #2
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    That was interesting reading

    The little NAA .22s are neat as Hell & not very expensive. Really high quality Stainless steel and very nicely machined.
    If you really take your time & aim from a rest they are actually really super accurate but the \"sights\" are \"one up\" from worse-than-awful.
    Their little .22 mag is great.
    I think the tiny NAAs are the only firearm around that you can only wrap ONE SOLITARY FINGER around the grip. :D
    In my opinion they are very useful as a last ditch emergency BUG (back up gun) - some folks will not agree with me on that.
    One big advantage they have is that they are actually small enough to \"palm\" & you can have it totally hidden & already in your hand while walking through that \"dark unlit parking lot\"
    Maybe my opinion is a bit skewd BECAUSE I just absolutely love ALL neat, unusual things.
    Say what you will about it for defensive purposes but it sure is a nifty little fun bugger to have around. :kay:


  4. #3
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Some of you may laugh, but my NAA .22mag has been my daily carry weapon for over a year. I would love to be able to have something more substantial on me, but when you are my size and shape and have to wear a uniform which makes it nearly impossible to hide anything, the NAA is about the only gun I can carry at work.

    After a year of constant carry, the gun still looks great, and it is fun to shoot, but not much fun at the range. It is suprisingly accurate for it\'s size, but I doubt I could hit much with it over 20 ft away.

    As a side note, I keep a round of rat shot as the first round in it. I figure if you ever have to shoot someone with it, aim for the face. It almost certainly won\'t kill them, but it WILL hit them and may blind them long enough to get off a second shot or to run away.

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    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Bryan,
    Please forgive me if this post seems like I\'m beating you up for your choice of ammo. But, the first rule of self defense using a gun is that you were compelled to use lethal force. Anything less than that indicates you could have used another method such as: hands, oc, asp, whistle, running away, whatever.
    Using shot to blind an assailant may give the impression lethal force was not warrented. Shooting once to blind and a second shot is really gonna \'look bad\'.
    On another note, if your assailant is wearing glasses, the shot is not going to have the desired effect. For not much larger a package, you can tote a J frame in some wonder alloy to keep it light and load it with a round that has a much better chance of stopping your opponent and keeping you in a little less legal/civil libilities. Maybe someone w better legal instruction can help us out here.......
    On a positive note, you adhered to the #1 rule of gunfighting-have a gun.
    Be safe, brother.

    Dan

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    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Jd, good points.

    I hadn\'t thought about the legal aspect other than, if it came up, I would stress I tried to stop them with less than lethal force with the first round. Alternatively you could always claim you forgot that the rat shot was in there, and you had it for defense against agressive animals. Which is at least partially true.

    I have been looking for something bigger that is still easy to conceal. However I haven\'t really found anything I like yet. Also I am saving up to buy the wife a gun. (she is going to apply for her ccw in a month or two)
    At this point I would rather have the NAA than nothing, and I would rather have her armed than me to have a larger weapon. She has made it clear that she doesnt want a revolver of any kind, and that is the deal we have made. I buy here a new semiauto of her choosing, and she gets a ccw and starts carrying.

    I want her safe. I\'ll worry about me later.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Understood Bryan, and I applaud your sacrifice for your wife, BUT-you wont be any good to her dead, maimed or in jail due to the rat shot.
    more than the legal concern, tho, I would be worried that if the altercation did require \'lethal'or immediate shut down of your adversary, that rat shot wouldnt do the trick. Hell, I\'ve shot rats w the stuff that ran away!. Hit a coupla gun shows, you and the Mrs handle a few different roscoes. Write down your preferences, and then get thee to a rental range and try\'em. When it comes time to buy, purchasing 2 will usually get the dealer to negotiate a more pleasant price. Especially if you can score used models. Others I\'m sure will disagree, but .380 would be my very bottom power floor. But nowadays, you can get pistols as small as some .380\'s that fire 9mm or even .40.
    Do us a favor? As you and your better half make selections, keep us posted and give us some range reports, huh?

    Dan

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    Try one of these, you can shoot .45 or .410 shotgun rounds out of them and they disappear in your pocket. nighthawk has one and swears by it. I shot it one day at the range with .45s, birdshot and 00 buck. After about 10-12 rounds my palm was smarting pretty good. But it\'s accurate, light and packs a lot of wallop. I bet there are alot of them on the resale market......

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    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Hmm. Could always carry two I guess. :)

    I largely agree with you JD.
    I might just have to rethink the rat shot. I still would rather continue to carry the NAA for a while longer if it means my wife will be getting her CCW. Some BG may want to rob me, but there are other things they might want rather than her purse. She is no good to me dead either.

    Bumper, actually I looked at a couple of those at a gunshow this weekend. In fact my 70 lb grandmother has one that fires .357 mag shells. She has only fired it once. (I wish I had that on tape!) She actually lost her grip on it and it went over her shoulder. LOL

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    Originally posted by GoodSamaritan
    Bumper, actually I looked at a couple of those at a gunshow this weekend. In fact my 70 lb grandmother has one that fires .357 mag shells. She has only fired it once. (I wish I had that on tape!) She actually lost her grip on it and it went over her shoulder. LOL
    I guess we better not all run out and buy them for our grandmothers, huh? :P I agree with LD as well and doubt if I would ever carry a one or two shot gun defensively, but I was impressed by the accuracy of little Bond Arms derringer but hated the sights.

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    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Well, she bought the thing LONG before I was born. She only fired it once, but she has done plenty with a rifle in her life. When she was in her late 60\'s a guy came into the office of their buisness and threatened her. She layed some money on the desk when the guy reached for it she smacked him on the skull with a lead filled club my grandad had made for her. To this day it still hangs by a leather thong from the RH top desk drawer. The guy actually lost consciousness for a minute or so. She went into the back and called the cops, but when she came back the only sign he had been there was her bloodpressure and a small blood stain on the floor. LOL

  12. #11
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    Originally posted by GoodSamaritan
    Well, she bought the thing LONG before I was born. She only fired it once, but she has done plenty with a rifle in her life. When she was in her late 60\'s a guy came into the office of their buisness and threatened her. She layed some money on the desk when the guy reached for it she smacked him on the skull with a lead filled club my grandad had made for her. To this day it still hangs by a leather thong from the RH top desk drawer. The guy actually lost consciousness for a minute or so. She went into the back and called the cops, but when she came back the only sign he had been there was her bloodpressure and a small blood stain on the floor. LOL
    Don\'t ya just love salty old women? :kay:

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Don\'t ya just love salty old women?
    She might as well be Lot\'s wife!

    Unfortunately she is beginning to fade mentally, but she is still a fighter.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    got one and have cycled several hundred rounds thought it both with the 22 lr and mag cyl, with several observations.
    1. has a life time guarntee.
    2. all though I have never had any issues, it is reported to have spring problems.
    3. I can keep all rounds in a 8\" paper plate at 21'with no problem.
    4. very easy to hide (my back up gun)
    5. wears very well after almost 3 years in the pocket.
    6. is a hoot to shoot.
    Tayopo likes this.

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    G'afternon shedon, coffee? Have considered one since basically no firearms are allowed to civilians in Ole Mexico. They talk of permits, but unless you are a brother to a Senetor , or ?, forget it.

    The li .22 is atractive since ,while illegal in Mexico, it would prob. only get you a $1,000 fine and confiscation, no Mexican Hanoi Hilton thingie.

    Your avitar suggest that you like to prospect ?

    Don Jose de La Mancha

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    Senior Member Array txron's Avatar
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    Someone mentioned to me once that it not the size of the hole, but the hole itself and where the hole is placed. Just me 2 cents.

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