Why 185 grain 45 ACP?

This is a discussion on Why 185 grain 45 ACP? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I has some 185+p in a G30SF I used to own. It was quite snappy. I have no idea if it was any better than ...

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Thread: Why 185 grain 45 ACP?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    I has some 185+p in a G30SF I used to own. It was quite snappy. I have no idea if it was any better than any other 45ACP but the the price tag implied that it was guaranteed to turn what ever it hit into vapor!
    Luis

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybm View Post
    I don't mean to high jack the thread but maybe I can get an answer here.

    I was told to use a heavier bullet to raise the point of impact. I hand roll my own
    and was hitting low using 200 gr .45 Rainier plated bullets. I've recently loaded
    some 230 gr but have yet to range test them ( outdoor range and the weather
    has been really cold ).

    I don't get it ??? Just an old dog trying to learn a new trick.

    Thanks in advance ... J
    The theory is the heavier, slower bullet spends more time in the barrel upon firing, so the barrel rises more under recoil before the bullet exits--thus rising the point of impact. I suppose it's true, but at 7 yards I haven't seen a noticeable difference.
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  4. #18
    Member Array Jaybm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The theory is the heavier, slower bullet spends more time in the barrel upon firing, so the barrel rises more under recoil before the bullet exits--thus rising the point of impact. I suppose it's true, but at 7 yards I haven't seen a noticeable difference.
    Thank you, just finished another fifty with 4.6 g TiteGroup now if the weather will co-operate ...

  5. #19
    Member Array Alarm Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone! I will stick with 230! Was just curious. I use the 147 grain HST in 9mm also. The only gun I experiment with is my 357. Mostly because it is so versitle and it is fun! But I use 38+P in it for home defense.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    I ran across this while doing some other reading you may find it of use
    185 grain Winchester FMJ : 910 Feet Per Second
    185 grain Remington JHP : 1015 Feet Per Second
    200 grain Speer FMJ : 975 Feet Per Second
    230 grain Federal FMJ : 845 Feet Per Second
    230 grain Ultramax JHP : 850 Feet Per Second

  7. #21
    Member Array Rockyriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    A higher velocity can generate higher energy, since kinetic energy is a function of the velocity squared.

    However, your post prompted me to look, and I see no 185 grain +P rounds catalogued by Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hornady or Speer. What +P 185s are you aware of?

    I have all sorts of 185 grain +P, please don't call my bluff and make me dig it all out.
    Here is some Remington Golden Sabers, just to prove my point, I also have some CCI/Speer Gold dots in 185 +P.



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  8. #22
    Member Array Moad's Avatar
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    All I carry is 185 gr....but.......it also has the Barnes Tac XP all copper bullet in it. Listed below are several companies where it can be found:

    Asym Precision
    Wilson Combat
    Buffalo Bore
    Double Tap
    Cor Bon
    Black Hills
    Barnes

    All my guns like them!

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    The 185 gr. might hit closer to POA on some pistols.
    The 185 gr. may produce less recoil.
    I handload the 185 Hornady XTP to an average 970 fps (matches advertised factory velocity) out of my Glock 30 SF.
    The Winchester Ranger T 230 gr. averages 874 fps out of my Glock 30 SF.
    185 gr @ 970 fps = 387# KE / PF 179
    230 gr @ 874 fps = 390# KE / PF 201
    I can certainly notice the difference in recoil with a power factor of 179 vs 201 out of the same pistol.
    Since I prefer the flush fitting and non-pinky pinching 9 round magazine, recoil minimization is important.
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Why 180 gr, Because my wife shoots them accurately! DR
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Is there an advantage either way at longer distances, either anecdotal or statistical?
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alarm Guy View Post
    I shoot 230 HST thru my Kimber. I have noticed alot of 185 grain choices in +P. What is the purpose or advantage of this round?
    Less mass/weight plus more power behind it (+P) makes for higher muzzle velocity. A lighter, faster bullet should improve penetration, although this isn't always the case.
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  13. #27
    Member Array SIG_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    A higher velocity can generate higher energy, since kinetic energy is a function of the velocity squared.

    However, your post prompted me to look, and I see no 185 grain +P rounds catalogued by Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hornady or Speer. What +P 185s are you aware of?
    Federal hydra shok, Remington Golden Saber, Speer Gold Dots,

  14. #28
    Member Array Timothy's Avatar
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    My understanding is that the older bullet designs needed the velocity from a 5'' barrel for expansion to take place. Afte many of the more modern 4'' 45s became popular the 185gr allegedly expanded better from the shorter tubes and penetrated less in the body which was desireable at the time. In the 80's and 90's light weight bullets were in style in all callibers. Now we've come full circle and deep penetrating bullets are now back in style.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array cz75luver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moad View Post
    All I carry is 185 gr....but.......it also has the Barnes Tac XP all copper bullet in it. Listed below are several companies where it can be found:

    Asym Precision
    Wilson Combat
    Buffalo Bore
    Double Tap
    Cor Bon
    Black Hills
    Barnes

    All my guns like them!
    I likewise carry the Barnes Tac-XP (XPB) bullet in the form of the Corbon 185 gr +P DPX. The 185 gr. +P loading penetrated deeper than the 230 gr +P HST according to the following link:

    Corbon DPX 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP duty ammo vs. Fed HST as control - M4Carbine.net Forums

    .45 ACP Corbon 160 gr Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1101 fps (1911); gel cal=9.0cm@576fps
    BG: pen=13.9" RD=0.66", RL=0.43", RW=159.7gr
    4LD: pen=13.2", RD=0.64", RL=0.46", RW=160.1gr

    .45 ACP Corbon 185 gr +P Barnes XPB JHP; ave vel=1097 fps (1911); gel cal=9.0cm@576fps
    BG: pen=16.8" RD=0.65", RL=0.51", RW=185.3gr
    4LD: pen=16.5", RD=0.66", RL=0.51", RW=185.9gr

    .45 ACP Fed 230 gr +P HST JHP; ave vel=996 fps (1911)
    BG: pen=12.2", RD=0.85", RL=0.41", RW=230.5gr
    4LD: pen=14.6", RD=0.69", RL=0.46", RW=230.7gr
    It's also one of the loadings recommended by Dr. Roberts (Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums):

    .45 ACP:
    Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
    Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
    Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
    Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
    Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
    Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
    Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

    Notes:
    -- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)
    What's more, a ten shot chrono average for an XD Service/4" clocked the Corbon 185 gr +P DPX at 1094 fps which is just a little shy of Dr. Roberts test(s). Most importantly, it feeds/functions reliably in my XD Service in .45.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
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    I remember when the 185's came out it was i think an early attempt to get an .45 ACP to exspand drive a lightweight HP fast enough and maybe it would open up. Back then magnum revolver rounds got all the glory remember Dirty Harry? So anything below 1,000 fps was just to slow to be taken seriously.

    I do belive shooters found the lighter bullet recoiled less so they could shoot a .45 more accurately so maybe that's why its still around?
    I really have no Idea why the 185 grain .45 ACP is still with us today other than the current rage for 3 & 3.5 inch barrels. That is the short barrels will burn less powder & lower velocity with the heavy bullets so maybe the 185's make a .45 more controlable with at least a chance of expanion.

    I feel if I want a lighter bullet than a 230 grain or even a 200 I will just move to a smaller caliber.
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