Need help with Non +p .38 - Page 2

Need help with Non +p .38

This is a discussion on Need help with Non +p .38 within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Did some checking. Black Hills only lists non +P in remanufactured ammo, not new. Winchester still lists the 110 Silvertip. They also list some .38 ...

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Thread: Need help with Non +p .38

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    research

    Did some checking. Black Hills only lists non +P in remanufactured ammo, not new. Winchester still lists the 110 Silvertip. They also list some .38 non +P softpoints, but I've shot these and they don't expand in anything I shot them into. Mag Safe lists a standard pressure .38, but like the Glaser, a specialty load. Remington lists a 110gr JHP, and that style of bullet (the "scalloped jacket") might be more likely to expand from the short barrel. I shot the Hydra-Shok through light cloth, and it still expanded. I don't mind a little jacket or fragment separation. Doesn't worry me a bit, I think it makes for a bigger wound. The only other options would be to have a load reloaded for you, and if you did that, you'd probably get better quality from Black Hills than "Joe's Ammo and Fresh Bait Store" loads. Or, go with a solid SWC. Or, convince Federal to bring back the Nyclad


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Superhouse15:

    So far, what I have gleaned is that if you intend to get enough velocity to expand with low pressure, you have to go with 110gr. That being said, you naturally loose some penetration with less weight.

    I agree with jacket separation causing bigger wounds, but that also causes more weight/penetration loss, so theoretically could lead to failure to reach vitals. I would rather reach vitals with no expansion than risk a shallow wound with a 38, because IMO, it doesn't have that much shock power anyway.

    I don't have a lot of pull at Federal, so I doubt i'll be able to get them to bring back nyclad,lol though I certainly wish they would.

    I have seen both ggod and bad reprts on Fed 110gr HS, which is what I currently have for my non+p revolvers. I think I'll get some of the 110 gr offerings that you mentioned and try them out myself, short of finding data from someone else's testing that seems both reliable and consistent from more than one source.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    sgtD, how about 158 gr XTP jhp from Hornady?

    http://www.cascade-ammo.com/catalog....oduct&id=33745

    Just thought it might be interesting...
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    This link is pretty inforamtive as far as test balistics go. Diiferent brands in an FBI test but it's from 1998, so might be a bit dated.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/38special.htm

    ElCruisr: I'm looking into the hornady next.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Wow. If your a fan of milk jugs, don't look at this, but I think it's the best comparison of loads found without for simple water testing.

    http://stevespages.com/page8f38special.html
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Thats CorBon 110 grain 1200 fps load is still made. (note that in Steves test he actualy only achieved 1000 fps in a snubby) But its unclear to me if thats approaches a +P load or not. Seems hot for a standard pressure load or not. It's not labeled as +P in thier catalog. It's the same load Steve shows to in that test. He talks about it being offered in a standard pressure and doesn't refer to anything else nor picture anything else. And goes on to test that 110 grain bullet as if it was a standard pressure load. So I am unsure how its classified. Or what he means by standard pressure as it surely is over the low 800's one would see in simple ball ammo. So not certain whats up with that. why does he show the 110 grain 1200fps load while talking about it as a standard pressure load? Since he only got 1000 out of it then it comes closer to being a +P I should think. Not sure why he never gives specifics of the lower pressure one or does not clear that up.
    Last edited by cphilip; October 24th, 2006 at 02:00 AM.

  7. #22
    Member Array johns961's Avatar
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    Previously mentioned was the Hornady non+P bullet.
    That's what I have for my older smith's and colt detective.
    It has a 158 grain XTP (extreme terminal performance)
    It usally can be obtained locally. But, it can be ordered from places like
    carbela's or sprortsman guide. It probably will not expand much. But those XTP bullets have a reputation for being accurate and going deep.

    John!

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    Thats CorBon 110 grain 1200 fps load is still made. (note that in Steves test he actualy only achieved 1000 fps in a snubby) But its unclear to me if thats approaches a +P load or not. Seems hot for a standard pressure load or not. It's not labeled as +P in thier catalog. It's the same load Steve shows to in that test. He talks about it being offered in a standard pressure and doesn't refer to anything else nor picture anything else. And goes on to test that 110 grain bullet as if it was a standard pressure load. So I am unsure how its classified. Or what he means by standard pressure as it surely is over the low 800's one would see in simple ball ammo. So not certain whats up with that. why does he show the 110 grain 1200fps load while talking about it as a standard pressure load? Since he only got 1000 out of it then it comes closer to being a +P I should think. Not sure why he never gives specifics of the lower pressure one or does not clear that up.
    Here is where Steve Camp said the standard pressure load is discontinued:

    Right now, were I looking for an effective .38 Special load for my snub, I'd take a hard look at the Remington 158-gr. LSWCHP +P, the new Speer 135-gr. Gold Dot +P, and Corbon's 110-gr. DPX +P. For those interested, I do have a test report on their now discontinued standard pressure version of the DPX. I have some of the .38 +P DPX but have not yet tested it. Here is the link:

    http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/C...ial%20Ammo.htm


    It can be found in context at the bottom of this page:

    http://hipowersandhandguns.com/38%20...on%20tests.htm

    However, if you have a catalog where I can get some, I would be interested
    Last edited by sgtD; October 24th, 2006 at 12:18 PM.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Ah... I see. I guess that second one is a later article.

    And I guess they used the same bullet size for both ammo's. Although one notices the similariity in the numbers he used for the first article where he is clearly trying out the standard pressure? Did you notice he shows a box of 110 gr 1200 fps DPX and that he refers to that as the standard pressure through out the article?

    And yet when I got to Carbon site I find a DPX load at about exactly that set of number and not specificaly refered to as +P. Thats whats confusing me.

    I was at Carbon site yesterday and turned up a 110 gr DPX load at about 1200 fps that does not say specificaly its a +p. However that kind of numbers could easily fit the definition, and could also have fit it in Steves first article.

    Thats the confusion I have. I ordered a box of that stuff because I could not find it local. However I intend to treat it like it is +P.

  10. #25
    Member Array fowler's Avatar
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    My friend a old retired Comadant went through the ranks 1960 the beat to a Comadant in the late 1980-1990,s when he retired. SW M-10 all the way to the end. Even in vice and as a Comadant a SW M-10 2". Which is his carry ccw gun. In shootouts and rank-file shootouts . He prefered the 158swc standard load. In his shootout the perp was D.O.A two shots center. In his L.E. Service he says 2 shots less than 10feet was the norm for a gunfight. Up in your face. And the 38spec was fine!
    Last edited by fowler; November 4th, 2006 at 05:25 PM. Reason: gramer

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fowler View Post
    In his L.E. Service he says 2 shots less than 10feet was the norm for a gunfight. Up in your face. And the 38spec was fine!
    IMHO this would likely be the case in most CCW scenarios. I have a hard time imagining that a typical BG would hang around long after being shot, even if he was capable of doing so and if I can get away after firing, you can bet I will.

    As a civilian CCW holder, I think of the gun as the best way to keep the BG from killing me, so I can escape.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  12. #27
    New Member Array hopetonvrshoot's Avatar
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    I just ordered two boxes of the Winchester 158 LSWCHP from Natchez. Unless I bought the last two bozes they will have it. It seems that load for a little snubbie will never go away.

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