Keith style SWCs for defensive use - Page 2

Keith style SWCs for defensive use

This is a discussion on Keith style SWCs for defensive use within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks Glockman10mm - that's the kind of real world feedback I was looking for. Seems like your handloads are very close to what I could ...

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Thread: Keith style SWCs for defensive use

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Thanks Glockman10mm - that's the kind of real world feedback I was looking for. Seems like your handloads are very close to what I could expect to see from the factory ammo I'm using in my LCR. If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me.

    Your "travel kit" looks remarkably similar to what I'm wearing right now - a Glock (a 30 in my case) plus a LCR. Even the Glock holster! I'd say "great minds think alike" if my brain wasn't so fried lately...

    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  2. #17
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    Your welcome. Looks like good input all around from the others as well.

    Talk about fried brain, just got back from weight training, 3 miles on the eliptical, and 15 minutes in the sauna, whew! But I've got on a good deer roast, so recovery looking pretty good,
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  4. #19
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    Yep, Devilsclaw;

    Full wadcutters do perform at least as well as the semi-wadcutter. For those readers who might attempt such a load, be certain to avoid hollow base wadcutter bullet designs in favor of a solid base wadcutter design. Full powered loads are said to blow the little skirts off of the hollow base bullets and leaving them stuck in the barrel. I've not experienced this because I didn't chance hot loaded hollow base wadcutters.

    With solid base wadcutters one can run them hot as prudence dictated.

    You're right about the 'coons. They can absorb .22 bullets and keep on truckin'. They don't do so well with center fire semi-wadcutter bullets when fairly hit.

    I'm headed out for a last minute deer hunt on the last afternoon of the season down here. Will have a handgun along, likely the .41 Magnum with the same load as was used last year. May or may not have opportunity to use it. If a shot is presented at longer range first then the .30-06 will get the call this afternoon.
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  5. #20
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    Cool

    Glockman made me a believer in the .38sp. 158 gr. LSWC a while back with his reports and I use them in my Model 60 for control, accuracy and fast followup shots plus they should get in deep and break things even below 800 fps.

    Image.jpg 1983 S&W Model 60
    click image to enlarge....

    I used them this year in my S&W Model 65 for my HR-218 yearly qualification and shot the below target.
    I love the round hole the bullets shoulder leaves in paper. It will grab bone and not slide off because of that sharp bullet shoulder also.

    Image.jpg

    Image 3.jpg Photo shows a carry load of 158 gr. LSWCHP+p

    Regards,

    FlaRon
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  6. #21
    481
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    I was digging around and found this thread on another forum kind of interesting as it relates to the topic at hand-

    Fatal Wound Channel - Shooters Forum

    If the OP is interested, there is a formula (as conceived by Marshall Stanton) for estimating the width of a wound channel produced by a SWC at any given speed; all you need is the velocity (in hundreds of feet per second) and the diameter of the bullet's meplat in decimal inches. Multiply the two together and divide by four and you get the width (in decimal inches) of the PC.

    Example: Meplat = 0.25"; Impact Velocity = 850 fps

    (0.25" x 8.5) ÷ 4 = 0.53125" (estimated width of PC)
    Last edited by 481; January 21st, 2013 at 12:15 AM.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    The full wadcutter bullet over a full charge or powder would be a formidable short range defensive load indeed. The only reasons it is not more popular is because it does not feed well in semi autos, and the lack of accuracy at longer range (due to poor aerodynamics). I don't know of any full power factory WC loads...?

    One of the reasons for good results with the SWC probably has to do with the fact that it cuts a full caliber hole from the moment it enters tissue. A JHP, in contrast, has to travel several inches in tissue before it expands. If you calculate the volume of destroyed tissue, I'm thinking you might actually be better off with a SWC than with a JHP, especially given the former's better penetration.

    Geez...I'd better stop now, before I sell all my semi autos and buy a few more revolvers to load with SWCs. I'll end up carrying two of 'em...maybe three while on duty, like Cirillo in his early days.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    The full wadcutter bullet over a full charge or powder would be a formidable short range defensive load indeed. The only reasons it is not more popular is because it does not feed well in semi autos, and the lack of accuracy at longer range (due to poor aerodynamics). I don't know of any full power factory WC loads...?
    No problem- https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111

    S'posed to penetrate 14-16 inches per BB's product description:

    Item 20D utilizes a very hard cast 150gr. WAD CUTTER bullet. The bullet is made hard, so it won't deform or mushroom. It cuts/crushes a "cookie cutter", full diameter hole in human flesh just like it does on a paper target. It penetrates deeply (roughly 14 to 16 inches in human tissue) and its full diameter profile maximizes blood loss as it cuts and crushes (not slips or slides) its way through tissue.
    Using Marshall Stanton's PCC formula to get the diameter of the permanent wound cavity you get (0.356 x 850 fps) ÷ 400 = 0.757"

    ETA: You can send those autos to me. I'll give 'em a good home.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Interesting! I'm guessing the SWCs have better penetration than the full WC?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  10. #25
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    Keith style SWCs for defensive use

    I can't say anything about performance on human tissue, and hope I never can..........

    But I can say that .44 Buffalo Bore wadcutter type bullets are just downright dirty at killing hogs down here in Texas. Passes through both front shoulders, no expansion, never seen a hog take another step.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Interesting! I'm guessing the SWCs have better penetration than the full WC?
    As long no deformation or expansion occurs, yes, that is my understanding.

    If a .38 Special HCSWC and HCWC of equal weight (158 gr) and impact velocity (850 fps) are run through the Schwartz bullet penetration model, the SWC should penetrate to a depth of 30.7 inches whereas the full WC would penetrate to a depth of 20.3 inches.

    The MacPherson bullet penetration model appears to be in close agreement, putting penetration depth for the .38 158 gr SWC @ 850 fps at 31.6 inches and 24.2 inches for the .38 158 gr full WC @ 850 fps.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 481 View Post
    No problem- https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111

    S'posed to penetrate 14-16 inches per BB's product description::
    Thinking about getting some of those for my 629.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Thinking about getting some of those for my 629.
    I haven't run much BB through my revolver, but the load I mentioned earlier (Federal .44 Magnum 300 gr. CastCore #P44E) is worth looking at if your 629 is running a longer barrel. Through my revolver, a 7.5" stainless SBH, it chronographs routinely in the mid-1200s and penetration is in the 4+ foot range- I swear I could stop a Brinks truck with that load.
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  14. #29
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    10thntn have you tried Buffalo Bore's SWC, I load my detective special with them.
    "Don't start none, won't be none!"

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    10thntn have you tried Buffalo Bore's SWC, I load my detective special with them.
    No, based on some PMs with Glockman10mm, I don't think the additional recoil and slower follow up shot times would be worth it. Not to mention the cost of their ammo. I'll stick with the standard pressure loads.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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