A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.)

This is a discussion on A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.) within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This should be a "sticky" as it is based on fact, not "Hollywood fiction." Ladies and gentlemen: This is reality, not speculation. There are some ...

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Thread: A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.)

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    A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.)

    This should be a "sticky" as it is based on fact, not "Hollywood fiction."

    Ladies and gentlemen: This is reality, not speculation. There are some gruesome scenes that may disturb some people, but when it comes to self defense, reality can be stark, harsh, brutal and, bloody. We're dealing with life and death, as well as maimed bodies. Such is life.

    Watch and learn.

    Dr Andreas Grabinsky on Gunshot Wounds - YouTube

    Scott

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    Senior Member Array 481's Avatar
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    Seen it elsewhere.

    It's an excellent video and worth the time.
    My favorite "gun" book-

    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    So if I got that right...
    Its FMJ that are deadliest in handgun bullets and frangible in rifle rounds. mostly because they keep moving on through. DR

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    High velocity hollow points may work well, but so many people shoot slower moving (subsonic) bullets with hollow points, they essentially put "speed brakes" on he slower projectiles, inhibiting their ability to stretch and tear the deeper tissues. Remember: Quite a bit of energy is required to breach the sternum or cranial structure, then the remainder of the bullet's energy must be employed to stretch and tear blood vessels, organs and the nerve centers (spinal column/cord.) This is the only damage that can assure "neutralization."

    It isn't any secret that during WWI, the ammunition makers for the European battle rifles learned that the long, slender bullets in their rifles penetrated winter coats and killed better. Nothing has changed since then. Penetration still kills.

    Physics and physiology are what stop an aggressor, not fanciful ideas.

    Scott

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    An attorney that has had a great deal of experience in handgun shootings writes:

    Good posts.

    I've worked on many homicide cases in which .380s and snub .38 Specials were used. Here are some takeaways from those that I've reviewed:

    No person ever hit in the brain/spinal cord or heart/aorta in these cases with either a .38 Special or a .380 of any sort ever continued aggressive action beyond the moment of that hit. (BTW, spinal cord hits are incredibly rare and brain hits are rare - the reports of these are that the person went down like a light that was switched off. Heart/aorta hits are common and witness reports are that these result in an immediate cessation of aggressive action, but the person sometimes remained on his feet for up to a minute. Note that the brain and arms are above the heart/aorta, so they would be immediately affected by the loss of pressure delivering oxygenated blood, unlike the legs.)
    No .380 ball round in these cases ever failed to penetrate sufficiently to hit these aforementioned vitals. (One such ball round actually overpenetrated and likely hit another person, but that hit was to the first target's calf, so that's not particularly indicative of too much penetrative power in .380 ball.) Same with .38 Special ball, which will overpenetrate even from a snub and still have a lot of energy - might be worth considering at least LSWCs to minimize danger of overpenetration.
    In three shootings, .380 JHP rounds that were properly aimed to hit the aformentioned vitals failed to penetrate adequately to do so.
    In .38 Special snub performance, no hollowpoints in these cases were ever described as having opened beyond "moderate deformation" of the projectile. (None of these hollowpoint shooting cases involved "modern" JHPs, such as the Winchester PDX1 or Speer short barrel Gold Dot bullets.)
    Tastes great/less filling - your choice.

    cheers, erich (carrying a tiny Ruger LCP with Buffalo Bore's psychotic ".380 +P" 95-gr ball - good for just south of 1100 fps from that gun)

    Erich is a long time shooter with plenty of experience from which he draws.

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    Double post.

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    Member Array Clodbert's Avatar
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    Interesting video but a single physician's clinical experience should not be used as the only data point. Perhaps if you had, say, a hundred emergency physicians compile their clinical expertise with gunshot wounds then we could maybe have some compelling information.

    But interesting, nonetheless. Good post.

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    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    AFIP studies over the years are much more valid than one Docs experience.


    /

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Watched this before - worth the time.

    Long guns (rifles, shotguns) are much more powerful than handguns. With handguns, it is all about shot placement, and penetration to the vitals. Expansion is not a good substitute for either. My .380 is loaded with FMJ-FPs, and my .38 is loaded with SWCs.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Watched this before - worth the time.

    Long guns (rifles, shotguns) are much more powerful than handguns. With handguns, it is all about shot placement, and penetration to the vitals. Expansion is not a good substitute for either. My .380 is loaded with FMJ-FPs, and my .38 is loaded with SWCs.
    Good choice. These will help you win your "close encounters of the worst kind."

    Scott

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    Re: A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.

    I'll stick to statistical evidence rather than speculation and anecdotes....

    Sent from this using that...

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCMedic8617 View Post
    I'll stick to statistical evidence rather than speculation and anecdotes....

    Sent from this using that...
    where do the statistics come from?

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    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCMedic8617 View Post
    I'll stick to statistical evidence rather than speculation and anecdotes....

    Sent from this using that...
    where do the statistics come from?

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    A physician's perspective on rifle and handgun wounds (an honest video appraisal.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    where do the statistics come from?
    Are you looking for a specific statistic?
    There's a number of places to obtain data, some right or wrong. Regardless you need to interpret the data and decide for yourself.
    Fair amount here....
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

    Sent from this using that...

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    The Anesthesiologist's video and Erich the Attorney's data citing cases from the Albuquerque Coroner's office told me a great deal of what I need to know. Sterile laboratory studies yield little valid data. What happens on both the battlefield and the street are for more credible (and reliable.)

    Scott

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