JHP and FMJ 9mm through 45mm? Do we know what we think we know?

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Originally Posted by glockman10mm

My guess is you haven't had much experience shooting live flesh with a variety of rounds.

And LE don't use swc because first, they don't function well in autoloaders, and two, they have a completely different need specific to criteria determined by public safety.

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My experiences are not in question here Glockman. And I will not talk about them anyways.

I, like you, don't carry SWC in .45 (which is most likely an autoloader, unless he's running moon-clips in a revolver) as this guy I quoted said he does.

Now if I were carrying standard pressure .38 Special rounds in a snubbie, maybe. But he specifically referred to .45.

I am going to point out that even after hitting bone if a .45 round goes straight through someone they usually have the fight taken right out of them. Have you looked at hornady Crit Duty. The hollow tip packed with polymer so it may not get clogged.


Si vis pacem, para bellum

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Originally Posted by gasmitty

As responsible armed citizens and gun enthusiasts we tend to focus on developments in the field of defensive arms and ammunition - we want the best and most effective stuff. But the difference between the effectiveness of of non-expanding and expanding bullets in adequate calibers is probably not a needle-mover, i.e., most likely a second decimal place effect.

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Even with all the info, testing, marketing of new products, hoopla, etc., this strikes me as the most "common sense" opinion I've heard.

I think things like this just serve to underscore the one thing we know for sure about defensive shootings - if someone is trying to kill you, keep pulling that trigger until they aren't trying to kill you anymore. I don't get too hung up worrying about wether or not my Gold Dots or Golden Sabres are going to expand, or if my .380 is "enough gun." I'm more concerned about how well an ammo type feeds and fires in my particular pistols, and hitting where I want them to hit.

I just think handguns are more or less a crapshoot. I do appreciate and read all the tests I come across, as I think they're interesting. I also appreciate the tremendous amount of work people do to make the tests. But when the rubber hits the road I think all of that info flys right out the window. (I'm not trying to be rude to anyone here; I really like reading the stuff.)

Out of all the 9MM I have ...The Federal HST .....I mean would you want to get hit anyplace by one of these ......? Nope didn't think so ....:)

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Originally Posted by R040607

My experiences are not in question here Glockman. And I will not talk about them anyways.

I, like you, don't carry SWC in .45 (which is most likely an autoloader, unless he's running moon-clips in a revolver) as this guy I quoted said he does.

Now if I were carrying standard pressure .38 Special rounds in a snubbie, maybe. But he specifically referred to .45.

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1911's of more than one flavor, absolute feed and function, otherwise I would not carry it for defense. Killed lots of critters of various sizes, up to 300lbs, usually with one well placed shot. Not the in question 2 legged variety, but as I said, I have no doubts about it's effectiveness. Paper shows placement, meat on the table shows that it works.

Terry

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Originally Posted by R040607

If this argument had any validity, why wouldn't LEO throughout the nation shoot SWC? You may not feel at a loss, but my guess is that you've never shot someone in a defensive scenario.

Clean-cut holes in paper is one thing, but it does not mean that the same round is best for use defensively.

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SWC bullets were popular for LE before the advent of modern JHP ammo, and in more powerful calibers is very effective. As effective as modern JHPs in the same caliber? Maybe, maybe not. But effective.