I need a quick opinion on this round.
This is a discussion on Winchester Black Talon 9mm 147 gr within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I need a quick opinion on this round....
I need a quick opinion on this round.
Good stuff; re-packaged and marketed now (I believe) as Ranger-T. Black Talons received some negative hyperbolic press as a "cop killer" bullet so Winchester pulled it from the market. These days you'll see it at gun shows for ridiculous prices due to its rarity.
NRA Endowment Member
The actual black talon round? It's kinda old. Winchester has improved upon it with the RA9T (Ranger-T) and now the PDX1 rounds.
NRA Life Member
"I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady
TX, I'm needing some carry rounds. I'll explain later. Gotta go.
Just like anything else. It'll work.
I have a few boxes of Black Talons, and SXT's, not much difference except the case, SXT=brass vs BT=nickel, and no black oxide coating on the SXT bullet. The PDX1 is claimed to be an improvement over both but I have not purchased any. For some reason the collectors (?) in my area will pay outrageous amounts for a box of Black Talons that originally cost under $20 in the 1990's. I'll keep mine.
US Army 1953-1977
‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
— Abraham Lincoln
Now marketed as Ranger T....Its my fav defense round. If you can get some stock up it can be hard to find as winchester only sells it to govt agencies so you have to wait for a resell to get any. If they are true original black talons, dont shoot em. keep em as source of emergency funds, shooters will pay top dollar for them for some reason;.
Its fine. Basically its the child of the SXT round. S ame X act T hing. I wouldnt use em. Keep em. They are worth alot of money for no reason other than people think they're magic. I have a box that i'll never use. I keep em cuz they are "cool". Not because I think they're cool, but because the rest of the world thinks so
If you have the original black talon cartridges, they are excellent self defense rounds...I have seen them removed from people at the morgue and they do what they arse advertised to do.
Here's a little information on why it became so controversial. The Gun Zone -- Black Talon Ammunition
I believe they have been repackaged or a very similar to the Winchester Ranger STX.
A couple of boxes of this Black Talon load are kept around here. They are the old stuff but have been well stored. On the very infrequent times I seriously carry a 9mm, one of boxes provides a full complement of ammunition for a High-Power. I like the notion of the heavier 9mm bullet.
Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
- Roy Batty
There is some confusion...
Black Talons evolved into SXTs, then into Ranger-Ts. Ranger-Ts are the latest version of Black Talons and expand more reliably than Black Talons or SXTs.
"Supreme SXT" (commercially packaged) are garbage. They do not have any similar traits to the Ranger L.E. family of bullets. They have 8 'petals' compared the the 6 petals the Ranger L.E. line has.
Here's a picture showing the different types of ammunition in the Black Talon/Ranger-T/SXT line of ammo. There's also a 'civilian SXT' which is an obviously different bullet design.
You should only buy Black Talons for collectors value. They will have inferior performance to Ranger-Ts and because they are a collectors item, are much more expensive. They're also going to be pretty old. The only thing the black lubalox coating found on Black Talons supposedly does is reduce bore fouling.
Ranger-Ts are good, and are on the top tier of premium defense loads, but HSTs outperform Ranger-Ts in my opinion. I own a box of 147gr Ranger-Ts, but don't carry them any more.
Winchester's PDX1 is a bonded Ranger-T. The bonding process prevents 'talons' from forming on the expanded bullet, which takes all the fun out of it . The Ranger-T bullet has a reverse tapered jacket. The core is designed to slip forward a bit, but will be locked inside of the jacket since it is thicker towards the front. I'm not sure there are any advantages to the PDX1 line over Gold Dots.
I've got a couple of boxes of them, but I'm saving them as collectors' items.
NRA Life Member
Charter Member (#0002) of the DC .41 LC Society
He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie
My CHL is in the mail and should be here in a few days. My G17 has over 650 round ball ammo through, and in my hands it has been very reliable. From my reading, I'd decided that I want my carry rounds to be 147gr. I had saw some WWB 147gr. JHP's that I thought I'd try (I know they're an old design, and they're not premium hp's...but for right now it is what I'm able to do). I only have 2 50 round boxes of the WWB 147's, and was planning on buying more (at least 2 more 50 round boxes) so I could have enough to try twice in each of the 3 17 round mags for reliability and have some left to carry and for a spare mag. But I messed up and now I can't get them because of the ammo madness.
Today, I heard on a radio show where folks advertise stuff for sale, a guy had 2 boxes of 9mm 147gr. ammo for sale. I called and found out they were Black Talons ($20 a box). Now...after a little online research and what I'm reading here...I probably should not have rushed out and bought the 2 boxes from the guy. I didn't realize that Black Talons are becoming collector items. I'm not needing (or wanting) to buy 'collectable' ammo right now...lol. I know I can do with it as I please and carry it, but I only have the 2 boxes, and I need enough to run a few mags through my gun to make sure it's reliable with it. I have a $20 Winchester ammo coupon that I need to use, so I could use it for part of 1 box of PDX-1 147's, and buy 2 more boxes and with the Talons have enough to try in my gun for reliability and have to carry with a spare mag. That is, if I can find the 3 boxes somewhere in town for non-gouge prices. I have read how that the Black Talons have evolved into the Ranger-T's and that the PDX-1's are bonded Ranger-T's. So I thought I might be able to use either (Talon's or PDX-1's) in the same bullet weight for reliability testing and carry...or not a good idea? not sure what the best course of action is.