Hollow Point or EFMJ?

This is a discussion on Hollow Point or EFMJ? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The other day I picked up a box of Guard Dog EFMJ in 9mm because I had ZERO defensive ammo and it was the first ...

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Thread: Hollow Point or EFMJ?

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    Member Array MJClark's Avatar
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    Hollow Point or EFMJ?

    The other day I picked up a box of Guard Dog EFMJ in 9mm because I had ZERO defensive ammo and it was the first time I saw it in stock anywhere. Not thrilled with the low grain count, but hey, it is for close contact. I had done some research on it and thought it should work well in a small gun like the M&P Shield, but I am still thinking of picking up a box of hollow points as well.

    Which one do you prefer? I hear some people have problems with hollow points cycling, especially in smaller guns. Have you experienced this too?

    What are the benefits of one over the other?

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    Member Array lyodbraun's Avatar
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    Re: Hollow Point or EFMJ?

    Hollow points for sure that guard dog is not bad just tested some in.40s&w works decent...

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    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    I have no objection to EFMJ rounds. I think that they are a fantastic idea! 100% expansion every time and zero chance of a fail to expand because hollow point cavity gets plugged. It also has 100% weight retention. I do agree the only issue I would see is the light weight of the bullets. I would need to look at energy delivered to target of each. Could be interesting research. Anyone up for it? I'm too busy most times and at other times too lazy. At least I'm honest!

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    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    I bought EFMJs for the Browning Hi-Power I carried.
    Past tense.
    The Browning wouldn't feed anything but ball ammo; the EFMJs ran with nary a problem.
    Still kicking myself for trading it off.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    I have a love/hate relationship with EFMJ, Guard Dog in particular. The bullet weight is very low, mainly since it has the rubber ball inside it, an the recoil is very low also. What appeals to me is the limited barrier penetration since I live in a condo and have neighbors just a few layers of drywall and insulation away, including a single dad with two young daughters. The idea of firing a round in an HD scenario and either missing or having it over penetrate and possibly harm someone else is something I don't ever want to happen.

    That said, the ballistics test I have seen on the Guard Dog are less than impressive. TNOutdoors9 did the 9mm into a Simtest block through denim and had pretty bad results. In summary, I'm not really sure of a verdict on this design. For in home use, especially in close quarters, I think it is adequate. For carry use, forget it. Many say that CCers like us don't really need to worry about barrier penetration like auto glass or sheet metal. I completely disagree, mainly based on likely car jacking scenarios.

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I use the "LEO" version of EFMJ, which is heavier and +P. In 9mm it is 124 gr, and in .45 it is 200 gr. Can be hard to find - got mine from Streichers.

    I like that it is immune to getting wrapped by clothing fibers, crushed, or plugged by barrier material - like can happen to conventional JHPs. Even if it fails to expand, you are still left with a blunt truncated cone bullet, which should do a bit more damage than a JHP that fails to expand (which tend to behave like a FMJ).

    I've never had any issues with them, even in my finicky Kahr PM9. Recoil is manageable, and the powder is low flash. The cases do not tarnish. Good rounds.

    I don't like the Guard Dog version - too light weight for my tastes.
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    Plenty of high-quality JHPs that'll do what I want so I've never looked at the EFMJ design as a serious option.
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    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    i have a box in case i ever get a gun that won't run with JHP's, but it's not my first choice. no good reason, except not as proven as jacketed lead.

    since they are generally 'light for caliber' bullets, you should shoot a few to be certain that your gun will feed, fire, and cycle them. sometimes a particular gun doesn't like the different recoil impulse of these lighter bullets.

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Question I have is WHY they are all in such light weights. Surely Guard Dog has a reason, I wonder what that reason is. I'd try them in 165 or 180gr for my G23.
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Question I have is WHY they are all in such light weights. Surely Guard Dog has a reason, I wonder what that reason is. I'd try them in 165 or 180gr for my G23.

    My guess is pure marketing. They are trying to sell these as "safer" for use in home defense, in terms of less risk of over-penetration. Hence the use of lighter weight bullets.

    I think the heavier "LEO" versions of EFMJ are a lot better than folks give them credit for. I guess Federal is making enough money selling more traditional JHPs that they have not put forth much of an effort to market the EFMJ. It's also possible that the profit margin on EFMJ is slimmer than with traditional JHPs.

    They have niched it for areas where JHPs are illegal or against department policy. That's a shame, IMHO, because I think the design has a lot going for it - understanding that no bullet works 100% of the time, and that there is no "magic" bullet.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Member Array Ljutic's Avatar
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    During the last ammo run, I picked up several boxes of the 200 grain 45 just because it was all that happened to be available. Finally had the chance to do some terminal testing on them and they did great. Looking ahead to the last election, I snagged a couple of 124 grain 9mm boxes while the getting was good last year. Hope to have a test done with them at some point this year.

    Agree with all the others above that like the concept behind these loads. They appear to be a Rodney Dangerfield product line that gets no respect.

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    It will work as designed under the conditions for which it was designed. Step outside of that and, like all bullets, you get what you get. You want to punch holes thru barriers and obstacles, get FMJ. You want consistant expansion at close range thru the proverbial 6 layers of denim, get the Guard Dog. Add in any variables and you'll get different performance.
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    Member Array Rem700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Question I have is WHY they are all in such light weights. Surely Guard Dog has a reason, I wonder what that reason is. I'd try them in 165 or 180gr for my G23.
    The nose of the bullet is filled with silicon rubber, Silicon is lighter then lead.
    I had problems with 9mm EFMJ not expanding reliably if its the only thing your 9mm will shoot reliably its probably better then FMJ that you know is not going to expand.

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    I shot a water filled gal veg oil jug today with a Guard Dog 45, while it did rip a good hole out the back of the jug, it did not seem to xfer a lot of energy to the bottle. The bottle just turned a quarter turn and and let the water run out.

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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    I shot a water filled gal veg oil jug today with a Guard Dog 45, while it did rip a good hole out the back of the jug, it did not seem to xfer a lot of energy to the bottle. The bottle just turned a quarter turn and and let the water run out.
    How was the expansion? I have looked at these. I find them interesting but cost prohibitive at tyhis time.
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