Ok, a friend and I were having a discussion about ammo, mainly the lack thereof. He has been CC'ing for about 6 months and accidentally shot both his mags of carry ammo instead of his plinking ammo..... :twak:. Now he has a crazy idea that he can make his own by drilling out Some FMJ. He has the machinery to do it and do it consistently, but I said it was a bad idea. I explained all the points I could make.... millions spent on R&D.... proper exspansion..... bullet jacket seperation.... problems feeding..... problems in magazine function.... the very bad idea or drilling a live round..... how deep to drill..... how wide of a cavity..... etc. He thinks if he machines a custom step drill that he will be fine. I even found documentation on bullets seperating to show him, to no avail.
MY question is this.... What is the feasability, the dangers I did not think of, the probability of reliability, proper performance etc. Is this something that anyone would try ? I have vehemently opposed this, and he isnt doing anything until we see what is said. I am all for DIY, but some things should be left to the pros, and this I think should be one of them. Any information ya'll can give me would be greatly appreciated. Also, I have a steak dinner riding on this...... but I am confident I will be eating for free.:danceban:
And, there's something about bullets fabricated while Led Zeppelin tunes are surrounding the work bench at a volume high on the decibel scale that imparts special properties. This has proven true for me since the mid-1970s.
"Well they call me the hunter, that's my name.
They call me the hunter, that's how I got my fame.
Ain't no need to hide, Ain't no need to run.
'Cause I've got you in the sights of my gunnnnnnn..."
Bmcgilvray (I think its actually Brian?), what a hoot. You caught me out on that one. Thank God it never occurred to me to load back in the 70's. I'll just leave it at that. But yeah, I would have had a go at it with Led Zepplin and the Doobies blasting powder around the bench. But I digress.
I didn't read the OP accurately so I assumed we were discussing drilling the bullet as a component and then loading. Without the level of accuracy that Hot Guns has established, that in itself would pose problems in consistent bullet weights. It would never have occurred to me to drill on live ammo. I'm seeing and hearing that it can, and has been done by folks that I would consider sane and capable. Well color me wrong. But, for my own part, I'd stick with ball ammo. If you load your own, run the powder setting up if you want a hotter load (within specs of course). I wouldn't recommend drilling on live ammo to the meek or the great unwashed. Shade tree ordnance modifications sounds a bit spooky. Besides, mainstream calibers were originally engineered and put to use before HP's ever came along and they were very effective.
St Elmo's huh? Nice choice. Start with the shrimp cocktail of course. The best 15 bucks I've spent in a long while.
"But." That's the problem. He's got a machine. Great. That's 1% of the problem. Now, if he's to ensure that those JHP's will actually effectively defend a life repeatably well, he's got a long row to hoe.
What is it they say ... You don't know what you don't know, you know?
Though, if he's willing, and if he's prepared for the realistic steps required to validate a design concept for real-world, life-or-death performance characteristics, go for it. Just don't expect many to bet their lives on use of this stuff until it's a proven thing. That being said, there's simple casting molds that can basically repeat "classic" JHP shapes, on the cheap. Can't say how they'd work as compared to common factory JHP designs.
Just taking a moment to comment on the number of people here who appear to want to play cop and stifle any bit of creativity.
Cataloguing the potential risks is always useful, but remember that without risk there is little reward in anything. That is unless you are living off someone else's dime.
It's amazing, the conveniences that are sold out there. I've had this handy attachment to my Forster case trimmer for 35 years now and probably haven't used it in 30 years. It's actually designed to work with loaded cartridges. Works easy as pie. No muss, no fuss. No detonations.
Oh, and works with the Doobies as well. Or try it with a little Allman Brothers "Statesboro Blues" or "Southbound" crankin' in the background.
Thanks svgheartland. My first name is spelled with a "y" but I answer to about anything that resembles my name. I'm your guy for "geezerly comic relief."
Thanks for posting this. The equipment has been around for years and no blown off fingers. I know many people who use this setup and it works well with loaded rounds...
"The other way to hollow-point lead bullets is to cast them with the hollow-point in it. This is fairly easy to do, one just inserts the appropriate sized pin in the lead mold and then casts the bullet. The hollow-point cast bullet works well also, its just a bit more time consuming, to size and lube it."
People have been playing around and experimenting with ammo forever. Just do it properly on components, not live ammo. Test the results. Proceed with caution. I don't think making hollow points is good place to start.
Sure does, as does Lynyrd Skynyrd and ZZ Top ("She's so particular, she likes a Smith and Wesson or Colt.").
We are makin' bullets now!
Back to the topic at hand. I once made a ghastly looking hollow point in a Remington 200 grain lead round nose .38 component bullet. The hollow point was wide and it was deep in that long slug which was made of dead soft pure lead. Used it to take my first deer with a handgun. With a muzzle velocity of 935 fps, the bullet was sent through the heart of a small buck at something like 17 yards. Found the bullet wedged sideways in a rib on the off side. Apparently the bullet traveled most of the way through the deer sideways as it had a dime-sized smear of lead protruding off of its side. My fearsome hollow point was collapsed on itself, completely worthless.
The biggest reason not to hollow point a jacketed bullet (or round) is, after all the work, it doesn't work like a hollow point. The jackets for FMJ bullets is heavier than for a JHP. Even opening the nose will not allow the jacket to open up - with any normal handgun velocity loads.
The early commercial jacketed bullets in the 1960s and early 70s didn't expand on a regular basis.
As has been pointed out (no pun intended), the equipment to make hollow point bullets - ON LOADED AMMUNITION - has been available for years. Just don't tell the people who don't believe it; you'll just confuse them.
It's one thing to drill or notch lead bullets, but the jackets on factory JHP are tapered and grooved to initiate proper expansion.
If he's a tinkerer let him make his own cast lead bullets using hollow point molds. I believe Lyman makes them and he can inquire at World's Largest Supplier of Gun Parts, Gunsmith Tools & Shooting Accessories - Brownells. Any slip up or friction from drilling could setup a powder flash or set the projectile off balance.
I'm glad I came across this thread, I've got some 124 gr lead round nose (9mm) bullets that I think I'll try to convert to HPs.
I'll be drilling the unloaded bullets.
It will be interesting to see how they feed and expand in water or something similar. I probably wouldn't carry them, but if they are as accurate and reliable as the lead round nose, I don't know why I wouldn't.
I don't buy into all the lawyer and liability stuff. In AZ if its a good shoot, I don't think there will be any issues.
A Lyman .38-40 bullet mold for making a hollow point. Would be suitable for any .40 S&W or 10mm that would feed the thing. I've not availed myself of the opportunity to make any bullets with this single-cavity mold yet. Bit tedious.
At least one episode of the old Untouchables TV series mentioned the deadly Dum-Dum bullet, made by a bad guy who cut an X in the bullet. There actually was a Dum-Dum Arsenal, until it blew up.
HotGuns, what issues/differences (if any) do your foresee if the OP's friend tries your technique on the jacketed bullets he was planning on "converting," rather than the cast lead bullets you used? Would the jacket allow the bullet (by itself) to be "gripped" with enough strength to prevent spinning without damaging the bullet while it is being drilled? What effects do you perceive the jacket would have on expansion (as has been noted, FMJ jackets are not the same as JHP jackets nowadays). Interesting topic...
Guess, he will be the next addition to the Darwin awards!
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