Winchester Ranger 127 +p+

This is a discussion on Winchester Ranger 127 +p+ within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Does anyone trust this round to expand reliably and uniformly? I have a box and since I don't have and more Speer Gold Dots for ...

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Thread: Winchester Ranger 127 +p+

  1. #1
    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Winchester Ranger 127 +p+

    Does anyone trust this round to expand reliably and uniformly? I have a box and since I don't have and more Speer Gold Dots for my second carry gun I was going to use the Rangers for it(my second carry gun that is). I've only done google research on it and although I know lies rule the internet it seems like alot of people have the same negative opinion of the Winchester Ranger 127 grain +p+. I do have a box of Hornady Zombie Max rounds, this cartridge has a good report, but Hornady and HK's don't mix to well so I don't know if I want to carry the Hornady in my USP compact.

    I know it seems like my ammo stock is all over the place but I didn't expect 9mm self defense hollowpoints to be extinct so I usually only carried 50 rounds of Speer Gold Dot and I have a good stock of FMJ rounds for training. Until things get back to normal or gun shops around here get ammo this is what I have to deal with.

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  3. #2
    Member Array lyodbraun's Avatar
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    over all the Ranger T's are a great round, I've tested this round in .380, 9 ,.40, and .45, and most of them had awesome expansion and penetration in bare gel, then I tested with 4 layers of denim and had all either fail to expand or only expand half way or only a few pedals open, they all got clogged with denim, for this reason I quit using it, and went to Federal HST's and or Corbon DPX' solid copper bullets... some people have good luck with the Ranger T's its a outstanding round and if its the only thing you have then by all means use it, its better than nothing,

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    The Winchester 9mm 127 gr +P+ JHP has a reputation for battering guns. I'd use it sparingly, firing only enough to confirm its reliability in my gun, and carry it only saving it (and the wear on my gun) by practicing with 'gentler' loads.
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    Well, I used the 127+p+ rounds in my Glock 19 with no problems. Very hot ammo. I never conducted any 4 layer denim tests, so I can't speak to that.
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    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darebear View Post
    Does anyone trust this round to expand reliably and uniformly? I have a box and since I don't have and more Speer Gold Dots for my second carry gun I was going to use the Rangers for it(my second carry gun that is). I've only done google research on it and although I know lies rule the internet it seems like alot of people have the same negative opinion of the Winchester Ranger 127 grain +p+. I do have a box of Hornady Zombie Max rounds, this cartridge has a good report, but Hornady and HK's don't mix to well so I don't know if I want to carry the Hornady in my USP compact.

    I know it seems like my ammo stock is all over the place but I didn't expect 9mm self defense hollowpoints to be extinct so I usually only carried 50 rounds of Speer Gold Dot and I have a good stock of FMJ rounds for training. Until things get back to normal or gun shops around here get ammo this is what I have to deal with.
    As far as the Winchester Ranger T-series +P+, they work VERY well in barrel legnths of 4.45" (P30L) and longer. With a short barrel you'll get alot of muzzle flash. In my SK the +P+ has about a 12" flame!

    In my P2000 SKs and my P30 I've never had a FTF! Knock on wood! They've eaten everything I feed them in either 9mm, 357 Sig, or 40 SW. Never heard of a Hornady/HK issue? But I don't shoot much Hornady.

    If you were in Las Vegas, I'd be happy to trade you 1 box of 9mm +P Gold Dots for 3 Boxes of FMJ Lawman!


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    Member Array darebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    As far as the Winchester Ranger T-series +P+, they work VERY well in barrel legnths of 4.45" (P30L) and longer. With a short barrel you'll get alot of muzzle flash. In my SK the +P+ has about a 12" flame!

    In my P2000 SKs and my P30 I've never had a FTF! Knock on wood! They've eaten everything I feed them in either 9mm, 357 Sig, or 40 SW. Never heard of a Hornady/HK issue? But I don't shoot much Hornady.

    If you were in Las Vegas, I'd be happy to trade you 1 box of 9mm +P Gold Dots for 3 Boxes of FMJ Lawman!
    Thats very kind of you but I'm far from Vegas and I have WWB and Blazer Brass no top shelf Lawman, just stuff good enough to work yet crappy enough to be cheap.

    Thank you for your responses members. Would anyone happen to know if ALL Speer Gold Dots are okay for use? I ask because I brought a huge box of Speer Gold Dots about 4 years ago. The rounds were just thrown into the box and the box was white and marked "LE practice use" it had a warning on the box that it wasn't supposed to be used for self defense. I brought it from a reputable LGS and they said that the QC for those rounds were the same for the small 20 round boxes.

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    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    The Ranger 127 +p+ is my standard load for my HK USP. I have put hundreds of rounds through it with no problem. Never had a FTF with it. I don't have personal experience with how well it expands, but I think it has been issue for some police in the past (before most moved off the 9mm)

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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    I've shot a lot of this load out of my M&Ps, and it definitely does batter guns. It is incredibly loud for a 9mm, almost to the point of .357 Sig and strains chambers and recoil springs. I would never use it in a subcompact or slim frame 9mm but for a full size or mid size weapon in good shape it is a good choice. The Ranger is Bonded and has a good street record.

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    I have about 700 rounds of it thru my G-19 with no issues including 250 rounds of it in my last Gunfighting Class for the afternoon training session. This is the same round as the Black Talon but without the black coating. It has a very good street rating and functions flawlessly in my guns. I also have some in 40 and 45ACP +P.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
    I have about 700 rounds of it thru my G-19 with no issues including 250 rounds of it in my last Gunfighting Class for the afternoon training session. This is the same round as the Black Talon but without the black coating. It has a very good street rating and functions flawlessly in my guns. I also have some in 40 and 45ACP +P.
    That's exactly right. They reformulated the Lubalox coating and made it clear instead of black. This coincided with pulling Black Talon from the catalog and launching two much more PR friendly lines. Ranger SXT is marketed to law enforcement and comes in those western themed 'good guys use this to stop bad guys' boxes, PDX-1 is marketed as a HD 'protect your home' civilian product. There is a joke that Ranger SXT really stands for "Same eXact Thing".
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    Distinguished Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    I don't know if it opens reliably but I certainly wouldn't worry about battering in an HK USP. Your USP could probably eat 10,000 round of +P+ without any issues.
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    Can anyone tell me what the purpose of getting 9mm+p would serve? I am not being sarcastic I really have wondered. I always thought the +p was for higher velocities to get deeper penetration. I have some Buffalo Bore 340gr Hard Cast rounds in 44 Magnum +p for use as bear protection when in the UP. Again for penetration. Now I was always under the impression that part of what "plagues" a 9mm is its speed compounded with lighter bullet weights. For example 45acp about 200 ft/sec. slower and about twice the weight equalled removing body parts vs 9mm holes. Again not being sarcastic just always wondered. I have often thought about going to a heavier slower round in 9mm to make sure it would dump all of its energy before exiting. I am also afraid that an attorney would see +p and come after me for using "hot" loads for self defense.
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    Ex Member Array MJB_17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigtime_077 View Post
    Can anyone tell me what the purpose of getting 9mm+p would serve? I am not being sarcastic I really have wondered. I always thought the +p was for higher velocities to get deeper penetration. I have some Buffalo Bore 340gr Hard Cast rounds in 44 Magnum +p for use as bear protection when in the UP. Again for penetration. Now I was always under the impression that part of what "plagues" a 9mm is its speed compounded with lighter bullet weights. For example 45acp about 200 ft/sec. slower and about twice the weight equalled removing body parts vs 9mm holes. Again not being sarcastic just always wondered. I have often thought about going to a heavier slower round in 9mm to make sure it would dump all of its energy before exiting. I am also afraid that an attorney would see +p and come after me for using "hot" loads for self defense.
    The reasoning behind +P is to get more "push" behind a bullet than a standard loading. They accomplish this by increasing the internal pressure at which the round is fired, 10% for +P and there no longer is a standard for +P+ but this round is loaded at a 22% overpressure according to Winchester. There are only a few calibers that officially have a +P spec on them (9mm, .45, .38), this is largely a result of those being calibers that have been around a long time and with the improvement in metallurgy and powder technology they can be run safely at higher pressures, thus enhancing penetration as well as energy transfer. 127gr is considered a mid weight load in 9mm, I like this round because it delivers a nice balance of both penetration and expansion.

    FYI, that Buffalo Bore ammo you mentioned is not an official spec loading, there is no SAAMI spec for .44 Magnum +P. Buffalo Bore sells other loadings in unofficial "+P" calibers like .40 +P, that is nothing more than them writing it on the box. Every manufacturer manual I have ever seen will tell you not to use anything in an unofficial spec, which is why I avoid handloads, reloads, and things like Buffalo Bore.

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    Member Array IsaiahM33's Avatar
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    @Bigtime....at the risk of starting a war or hijacking this thread, forget about "energy dump." Handgun rounds don't have anywhere near enough energy to "stop" an assailant in that manner. Do some research. The majority of handgun "stops" are due to bleed out. The probability that a handgun round will penetrate AND hit something vital is actually pretty low. There's a video somewhere that a ER doctor did on this subject. It's pretty dry but the information in it is outstanding! I was once a proponent of ENERGY....no longer.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darebear View Post
    Thats very kind of you but I'm far from Vegas and I have WWB and Blazer Brass no top shelf Lawman, just stuff good enough to work yet crappy enough to be cheap.

    Thank you for your responses members. Would anyone happen to know if ALL Speer Gold Dots are okay for use? I ask because I brought a huge box of Speer Gold Dots about 4 years ago. The rounds were just thrown into the box and the box was white and marked "LE practice use" it had a warning on the box that it wasn't supposed to be used for self defense. I brought it from a reputable LGS and they said that the QC for those rounds were the same for the small 20 round boxes.
    Not sure I would call your LGS "Reputable" with the line of BS they handed you. The reason they are bulk packed with a warning is that those rounds FAILED QC for some reason. QC deemed them safe to fire, just not reliable. Sold at a reduced price for for training.
    I've used "LE Practice" ammo for practice with no major problems.

    The ammo I am using for training right now is Federal Hyra-shock 124grn. The only thing I can tell that is wrong with them is they have fingerprints on all the cases. I've used about 500rnds so far with one hang-fire of about half a second. Strange feeling when you squeeze the trigger and hear a sizzle before the bang. NOT something I would want to rely on for for my life!
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