Do you believe bullet setback causes KA-BOOMS?

Do you believe bullet setback causes KA-BOOMS?

This is a discussion on Do you believe bullet setback causes KA-BOOMS? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Battered Bullets: Does bullet setback matter? | The Daily Caller Andrew Tuohy is a contributor and experimenter for LuckyGunner Labs and he tested bullet setback ...

View Poll Results: Can a bullet setback cause a KA-BOOM?

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    8 15.09%
  • Yes

    45 84.91%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Do you believe bullet setback causes KA-BOOMS?

  1. #1
    Member Array StardogChampion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    46

    Do you believe bullet setback causes KA-BOOMS?

    Battered Bullets: Does bullet setback matter? | The Daily Caller

    Andrew Tuohy is a contributor and experimenter for LuckyGunner Labs and he tested bullet setback to over .35' setback. None of his bullets failed to feed or caused a KA-BOOM. .35'+ setback is a severe setback and it still did not cause a kaboom in a 40 S&W cartridge the most widely perceived cartridge to cause a kaboom considering its already a high pressure round without using +P ammo which this author used. He used speer gold dots.
    I would like to see any conclusive tests that have show and/or proven that a bullet setback can cause a kaboom because in all of my research I haven't found any.


  2. #2
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Western WA/Rexburg, ID
    Posts
    313
    Yes. I do believe bullet setback will cause or contribute to a kaBOOM.

    Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]
    10mm Glock KaBoom - >>> UPDATE: PISTOL RETURNED <<< - AR15.COM

    Maybe you skipped a part of the article.

    Why did this happen?

    Well, Glock has revised the barrel since the early “unsupported chambers” which left the pistol with such a bad reputation, and they also beefed up the frame since the earliest iterations of the .40 S&W. And while certain powders, when used in .40, can cause dangerous pressure spikes, manufacturers of commercial ammunition wisely test and select powders that are not as susceptible to changes in temperature or, obviously, bullet setback.

    So while I’m not saying that you should attack your ammunition with hammers, I am saying that you should not fear tiny amounts of bullet setback with commercial ammo – at least when it comes to pistol cartridges like the .40 S&W, and especially when you consider that some factory ammo has a natural variation in overall length that does not result in a dangerous condition.
    A kB only happens when the brass cannot contain the cartridge pressures and bursts. Different cartridges and powders have different pressures and pressure spikes. If you have the right combination, with setback (which drastically increases pressures) with less than ideal case head support, the brass will burst. If the brass cannot burst, there will not be a kB.

    I don't know what you're trying to argue about or prove.

    There's a reason there aren't a lot of people testing if bullet setback will blow up their gun. Are you thinking about giving it a try? Go on, I believe in you.

  3. #3
    Member Array StardogChampion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher10 View Post
    Yes. I do believe bullet setback will cause or contribute to a kaBOOM.

    Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]
    10mm Glock KaBoom - >>> UPDATE: PISTOL RETURNED <<< - AR15.COM

    Maybe you skipped a part of the article.



    A kB only happens when the brass cannot contain the cartridge pressures and bursts. Different cartridges and powders have different pressures and pressure spikes. If you have the right combination, with setback (which drastically increases pressures) with less than ideal case head support, the brass will burst. If the brass cannot burst, there will not be a kB.

    I don't know what you're trying to argue about or prove.

    There's a reason there aren't a lot of people testing if bullet setback will blow up their gun. Are you thinking about giving it a try? Go on, I believe in you.
    Re-Chambering Rounds Safety Notice

    "resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernible by external inspection."

    As I stated in my OP I have yet to see a conclusive study that proves rechambering a round will cause a kaboom. There is no doubt that it can cause failure to fires but I haven't seen a case where it was proven to have caused a kaboom in handgun factory ammunition. I'm not saying that it's impossible but what I have seen is that it's quite rare if it does happen at all, and that what's most likely to happen is a failure to fire.

    In fact many people on this board and other forums talk about how if they see a round/measure a round that has a setback they will not use it in there carry gun for self defense and take it out to the range to use it......and out of the 100s of people who have done this on the forums not a single time has there gun blown up with rounds that they knew had a setback! My point is if it does happen its extremely rare and/or does not happen with factory ammunition. .35'+ setback in a 40 S&W and does not fail to fire or go kaboom is a a pretty good indication that this kaboom theory is borderline a myth and/or extremely rare.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,670
    Quote Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post
    Re-Chambering Rounds Safety Notice

    "resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernible by external inspection."

    As I stated in my OP I have yet to see a conclusive study that proves rechambering a round will cause a kaboom. There is no doubt that it can cause failure to fires but I haven't seen a case where it was proven to have caused a kaboom in handgun factory ammunition. I'm not saying that it's impossible but what I have seen is that it's quite rare if it does happen at all, and that what's most likely to happen is a failure to fire.

    In fact many people on this board and other forums talk about how if they see a round/measure a round that has a setback they will not use it in there carry gun for self defense and take it out to the range to use it......and out of the 100s of people who have done this on the forums not a single time has there gun blown up with rounds that they knew had a setback! My point is if it does happen its extremely rare and/or does not happen with factory ammunition. .35'+ setback in a 40 S&W and does not fail to fire or go kaboom is a a pretty good indication that this kaboom theory is borderline a myth and/or extremely rare.
    I guess the reality, for me, is that it's not worth risking damage to my gun or losing a few fingers just to save a 15 to 25 cent round that is known to be defective. My gun is worth about $600 and my hand is priceless. To me, the safe play is to just throw it away.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. It will probably work but I'm not buying in to probably when it comes to safety.
    rocky and Bad Bob like this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  5. #5
    Member Array StardogChampion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I guess the reality, for me, is that it's not worth risking damage to my gun or losing a few fingers just to save a 15 to 25 cent round that is known to be defective. My gun is worth about $600 and my hand is priceless. To me, the safe play is to just throw it away.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. It will probably work but I'm not buying in to probably when it comes to safety.
    Where can I buy hollow points for 15 cents a round?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Suffolk, Virginia
    Posts
    609
    possible? ...yes
    likely? ... no
    I would imagine that most ka-boombs are related to barrel obstruction

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzadik View Post
    possible? ...yes
    likely? ... no
    I would imagine that most ka-boombs are related to barrel obstruction
    Not all, I had a failure when the gun fired prior to full battery as proven by two independent gunsmiths. Of course the gun manufacturer blamed the ammo and the ammo manufacturer blamed the gun. I no longer own a weapon produced by that manufacturer.
    US Army 1953-1977

    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,670
    Quote Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post
    Where can I buy hollow points for 15 cents a round?
    OK, 15 cents a round is for ball. I think I pay about 51 cents a round for 9mm HST +P. My hand is worth more to me than 51 cents.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Where the deer and the antelope roam
    Posts
    3,515
    If I have a questionable round it gets the bullet pulled.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

    “Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo.”
    - H. G. Wells -

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    2,865
    In the article, Tuohy describes firing ten rounds of ammo with deliberately-induced setback without a kaboom. What he describes are a progression of seven rounds with setbacks from .005" to .035", and an additional three rounds which he basically mangled with a hammer without recording dimensions. He says nothing about a .35' setback (which is over 4 inches, BTW).

    He did NOT say that he was using +P loads, nor did he reveal the bullet weight, which could be highly significant.

    With the exception of the three mangled rounds, the setbacks he "tested" were not all that "severe". The first three, of .005", .010", and .015", are practically negligible. Even the .035" setback would increase pressure by less than 6% - less than that of a +P. Even if he was using +P to start with, he would not have exceeded +P+ pressures by much, if any.

    To deduce from this "test" that bullet setback is not potentially dangerous is absurd. Even if the setbacks he tested had a 1-in-10 chance of causing a kaboom, there is a reasonable chance that he could have gotten through his "test" without incident. There is a reason that manufacturers, handloaders, and knowledgeable shooters are wary of bullet setback.
    Last edited by Kilowatt3; April 1st, 2013 at 09:37 AM.
    atctimmy likes this.
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society - "Get Heeled! No, really!"
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member
    Array manolito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Milford California
    Posts
    1,480
    When I read a warning from the ammunition manufacturer or the weapons maker I will call it credible.

    There are thousands of conditions that can cuase product failure.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    859
    Bullet setback will cause elevated pressure in the round when fired. If the pressure is high enough, it can cause damage to the gun. How much damage is under the influence of many factors.
    In some guns under certain circumstances the damage can be dangerous.
    This is why your rounds Over All Length is critical when loading or reloading.
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
    Dominus Vobiscum <))>(
    Where is the wisdom that we have lost in knowledge?" T.S. Elliot

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,653
    Don't forget that ambient temperature (bullet weight has been mentioned) can make a significant difference. Also, re-loaders need a mention. Even if velocity is within standards the pressure curve is probably not the same as for factory loaded rounds. depending on the powder they're using. Like other accidents, there are usually several factors involved that, taken together, lead to disaster.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array nathanjns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    528
    The most likely ( to me ) explanation I've heard goes as follows:

    40 S&W seems more prone to kabooms than other cartridges. Reloaded ammo is more apt to kaboom than factory ammo if it was originally fired in a gun so designed that a portion of the chamber leaves the case unsupported. The theory is that the unsupported portion of the case is weakened in the initial firing. The case is then reloaded and, if upon the subsequent firing, the weakened portion of the case happens to again be aligned with the unsupported area of the chamber, the possibility of a kaboom is increased. If bullet setback ( causing increased pressure ) is added to the mix, the possibility of a kaboom is increased further yet.

    While you might need to be pretty unlucky to have all of these circumstances line up at the same time, it is within the realm of possibility. That is probably why some folks say they have been reloading for their Glock 22 forever without any problem; while others are convinced of the opposite. Personally, I prefer to err on the side of caution and don't do anything I suspect may contribute to bullet setback, even with factory ammo.

  15. #15
    Member Array vanagonnuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    205
    I had just started handloading and double charged (I think) a 45 round, well one time I was on the range and on the 5th shot I had a big kaboom, it blew out my mags floor plate and made a nice mess in my gun, Lucky for me I had a good 1911 and some wrap around pacs, didnt loose my fingers or suffer injuries other then soiled pants and a bum mag.

    Its not fun.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

40 s&w bullet setback
,
bullet set back glock
,

bullet setback

,
bullet setback 40 s&w
,

bullet setback kaboom

,
bullet setback kb
,
bullet setbck
,
can i safely fire a cartridge with bullet setback
,
does bullet jump cause pressure increase
,
how much pressure does it take to cause a kaboom
,
what causes a bullet setback
,
what happens when ypu rechamber the same bullet
Click on a term to search for related topics.