147 g. FMJ flat tip a decent defensive round?

147 g. FMJ flat tip a decent defensive round?

This is a discussion on 147 g. FMJ flat tip a decent defensive round? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I ran into 4 boxes of the stuff and it has me curious if this is a better defensive round than your average 115 g. ...

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Thread: 147 g. FMJ flat tip a decent defensive round?

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    Member Array sigma's Avatar
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    147 g. FMJ flat tip a decent defensive round?

    I ran into 4 boxes of the stuff and it has me curious if this is a better defensive round than your average 115 g. ball ammo. Obviously hollow points are going to be better but I haven't found any on the shelves in my area for months. It's my understanding that .38 wad cutters were a pretty standard defensive round for quite some time, would this idea apply to the 9mm flat point? Either way I like how the flat points make it look like you took a large hole punch to your target


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    I don't think I'd be much happier with 147 gr. FMJ than 115 gr. FMJ. If it was all I had, I'd carry them, but I'd be looking for darn near any HP to replace them with until I could find some good SD rounds. I've seen a number of places on the internet get both Ranger T and HST rounds, so if you keep your eyes open, you will find some good defensive rounds eventually.
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    At least the 147 will penetrate better, but a 9mm hole is still a 9mm hole. Only so much you can do with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    I ran into 4 boxes of the stuff and it has me curious if this is a better defensive round than your average 115 g. ball ammo. Obviously hollow points are going to be better but I haven't found any on the shelves in my area for months. It's my understanding that .38 wad cutters were a pretty standard defensive round for quite some time, would this idea apply to the 9mm flat point? Either way I like how the flat points make it look like you took a large hole punch to your target
    I would never say Obviously hollow points are going to be better. That is a subjective statement. in many conditions a 115 gr ball will give you a better chance at a stop/kill than a JHP.
    As for 147gr flat round depends on the weapon generally the short the barrel the lighter the load should be the longer the barrel the better it handles heavier rounds
    The flat nose rounds in a lighter load work very well in small caliber weapons like a 380, better than JHP in the real world.
    If you shoot a 147 out of a full size 9mm it will make a mess out the target.
    Shooter get to hung up on 147 gr this and that often the round is to heavy. The highest first round kills in the 357 still come from the 125 gr rounds
    The only weapons I load with heavy JHP are for very close range .

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    I ran into 4 boxes of the stuff and it has me curious if this is a better defensive round than your average 115 g. ball ammo. Obviously hollow points are going to be better but I haven't found any on the shelves in my area for months. It's my understanding that .38 wad cutters were a pretty standard defensive round for quite some time, would this idea apply to the 9mm flat point? Either way I like how the flat points make it look like you took a large hole punch to your target
    That's just it, the meplat makes it seem like you'll get a nice clean hole that you'll be able to see daylight through, but it really won't.

    In fact, the 9mm 147 gr. FMJFN is even more penetrative than the 9mm 115 gr. FMJ according to the Schwartz and MacPherson bullet penetration models. According to those models, the 147 gr. FMJFN should give you somewhere in the range of 32.1" (Schwartz) and 33.6" (MacPherson) of penetration in soft tissue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    At least the 147 will penetrate better, but a 9mm hole is still a 9mm hole. Only so much you can do with that.
    Agreed.....you will punch a match-grade hole in 'em, but it will likely be the same size going out as it was going in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostMaker View Post
    Agreed.....you will punch a match-grade hole in 'em, but it will likely be the same size going out as it was going in.
    Exactly and all that kinetic energy that could have been transferred to the target will be lost on something else.
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    The short answer is no. 9mm FMJ is not an ideal defensive round. It tends to penetrate through and through while disrupting very little tissue, thus depositing very little energy to the target along the way. Because of this, it seems of little use to debate the ineffectiveness of one weight of 9mm FMJ over the ineffectiveness of another.
    generally the short the barrel the lighter the load should be the longer the barrel the better it handles heavier rounds
    This is counter to modern studies. Since you are already sacrificing velocity in a short barrel, you want to maximize penetration. Heavier projectiles will maintain momentum/penetrate deeper than lighter rounds. Modern HP ammo is less velocity sensitive than ammo just 20 yrs ago. In the past, it was more important to maintain velocity to ensure reliable expansion, but not as much with today's top shelf JHP ammo.

    Anyway, all that is irrelevant to the OP's FMJ question. Both 147 and 115 gr. 9mm will likely pass through a target, and neither will expand. The 147gr. flat nose may have a better capacity to break through bone, and the 115 may be more inclined to deflect from its line of travel.

    Try these:http://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-9mm-amm...phstfedprem-50

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    I'm sure it's been discussed plenty but 147 grain loads have been SAID to be more temperamental as far as feeding. Can't speak from experience. See how your gun likes it. Reliable feeding, shot accuracy, penetration (where this should shine) are all more important than expansion. Flat nose > round nose as far as more destructive wound channels assuming larger frontal area of bullet. Decent round? Probably.

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    I know one high profile maker of premium defensive ammo claims to load his mags with 147 FMJ with two or three rounds of HP at the top. According to his reasoning, if the first two or three shots don't kill his assailant, the BG will probably have moved behind cover and will require ball ammo to kill. I dunno, maybe some merit to that logic, I'm just reporting what was written.
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    You run the risk of hitting the bad guy with a less than desired wound channel, and hitting the guy behind him with a more than desired wound channel.

    All this, with one round. Get some good carry ammo.
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    Local SD shooting...

    Pizza guy gets ribbed buy a guy in a mask and a shot gun...

    As BG is distracted by the cash, owner pulls a M&P 9mm and puts 3 in the chest from 5ft..
    BG drops... BG gets back up... Owner shoots 4 more hitting him...
    BG runs for the door... Owner drops 3 more in him....
    BG runs out the door and 100y down the block before dropping dead..

    All shots hit the chest... From 4ft to 10ft

    What kept the BG from shooting back with His sg?... It wasn't loaded.. If it was it could have been bad..

    Ammo choice....WWB 9mm fmj....

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    Holes in hearts , spines and brains are STILL holes in hearts, spines and brains no matter what makes the hole....There are graveyards full of dead people killed with FMJ 9mm.

    The problem with FMJ is that rounds that do NOT hit hearts , spines or brains do not do much damage and are VERY likely to exit the initial target (and possibly hit a bystander...maybe in the heart, spine or brain.....)
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    I said it in the .45ACP ball thread, but it is just as applicable here:

    Modern JHP > Ball
    Ball > Empty gun
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    If your enemy is pepper poppers, I'd say yes, 147s are better. Shot my CZ75 in Tuesday Night Steel last night, and the 147s clearly knocked the poppers over with more authority than the 115s.

    Soft, fleshy targets - I doubt there'd be a significant advantage.
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