9mm vs .45 vs rifle...

This is a discussion on 9mm vs .45 vs rifle... within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Long as in 34 minutes but good information by a Physician about gun shot wounds... Caveat VERY GRAPHIC!! 9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's ...

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Exclamation 9mm vs .45 vs rifle...

    Long as in 34 minutes but good information by a Physician about gun shot wounds...



    Caveat VERY GRAPHIC!!





    9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot Wounds (graphic photos) - YouTube!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Member Array Quincythedgo's Avatar
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    Yeah it goes right into some nasty wounds.

    What I'll rememember most is the part where the .45 HP shot into the guy's sternum and stopped millimeters before reaching the heart and therefore survives. FMJ and he probably would have been long gone.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    OP, this is significant. And is the reason I have been preaching the doctrine of large caliber, or heavy for caliber bullets since joining this forum.

    But I'm afraid this will mostly fall on deaf ears. People are too infatuated with marketing claims and gellatin tests to understand that the very nature of a HP is to stop inside the body, and they are more tuned into the expansion and jagged petals and fall for a false sense of security that these will produce amazing damage enough to reliably stop the threat.

    It's not just about shot placement. It's not about expansion.
    It's about punching holes in blood swollen organs and causing massive blood loss, or crushing supporting bones that get in the way.
    But the projectile has got to penetrate from any angle to do it.

    All these advances in bullet design have been to cut risk of over penetration for LE and reduce lawsuit risk.
    The better they get for this purpose, the worse they get.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    I am of the "Old School" and keep in mind that the .45 ACP in FMJ is what the Military originally settled on as the "Best" stopping power (killing power) for their hand gun of choice that lasted more than 70 years.
    Also it made the "Trench gun" of the day after WWI in the form of the M1A1 "Tommy gun". And used throughout WWII.

    The only good reason to use .45 ACP JHP is in an attempt to minimize collateral damage, not for better knock down power.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    I agree completely Glockman.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

    In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
    In this they would have a real good offering.
    But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

    But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Great video. It was worth watching twice.

    Thanks for posting it.
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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

    In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
    In this they would have a real good offering.
    But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

    But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
    Gman, we already have ranges starting to restrict lead bullets, and CA has introduced legislation to ban lead projectiles. Unfortunately, lead is being criminalized/demonized almost as much as firearms ownership.
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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    IUnteresting video..... learned some new stuff...and also to not shoot myself in the knee with a SBR....
    pittypat21 and GhostMaker like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dV8r View Post
    I am of the "Old School" and keep in mind that the .45 ACP in FMJ is what the Military originally settled on as the "Best" stopping power (killing power) for their hand gun of choice that lasted more than 70 years.
    Also it made the "Trench gun" of the day after WWI in the form of the M1A1 "Tommy gun". And used throughout WWII.

    The only good reason to use .45 ACP JHP is in an attempt to minimize collateral damage, not for better knock down power.
    Don't forget that the military was not allowed to use expanding ammunition, and even if they were, expanding bullets in 1908 were a whole different animal.

    I know no one likes one-shot stop percentages, but in this case, they're instructive. .45 FMJ, about 70%, .45 HP, about 95%. You can argue wound theory and look at anecdotal evidence all day long, but I've seen no data to suggest that FMJ has BETTER stopping power than HP. If anyone has, let me know where to find it.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Bullet molds are cheap, and lead is even cheaper.

    I've got all the stuff, but have only made a few batches (still have quite a few).

    I prefer sending the Speer kids to college!

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

    In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
    In this they would have a real good offering.
    But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

    But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
    So why do folks like Buffalo Bore insist on making hard cast SWCs?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    This does lend credence to the old western story/joke: "Did you hear about the guy with a handgun who committed suicide? No, what happened? Yeah, he drew down on a guy with a rifle."
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    So why do folks like Buffalo Bore insist on making hard cast SWCs?
    Because they drive them to maximum velocities.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post

    In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
    Not soft, but it packs a wallop: Buffalo Bore.

    For whatever reason, I have more confidence in this round than a JHP.

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