Liberty Civil Defense 9mm 50gr 2000fps

This is a discussion on Liberty Civil Defense 9mm 50gr 2000fps within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Saw this at Cabela's today. Interesting hollow point. Really light and long gun equivalent fps. Any thoughts or experiences?...

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Thread: Liberty Civil Defense 9mm 50gr 2000fps

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Liberty Civil Defense 9mm 50gr 2000fps

    Saw this at Cabela's today. Interesting hollow point. Really light and long gun equivalent fps. Any thoughts or experiences?

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    It'll be hard to judge until a few people get shot with it.

    I'm not really a fan of light and fast though.

    Slow and heavy works. We have lots of proof of that.
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    I forget the specifics but back in the 1980s I remember a magazine article where they were experimenting with using pewter to cast bullets. The bullets were very light weight and yielded fantastic velocities but they ran into problems casting them with only 1 out of 5 or 6 being usable. Wonder if this is spin-off of those tests and they have the bugs worked out.
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    Theres a few gel tests here in this forum,
    I would recommend Ljutic's reviews < second post in thread>

    Heres the link to the other thread. <LINK>

    Also heres a 16 minute review/gel test of the .40 & .45 USM4 by Tactical Defense Solutions on youtube.
    In this review they compare it directly, in the same gel block to the HST
    LINK

    11" penetration in .40, 14" in .45 and a surprisingly impressive wound channel
    Make your own decision.
    Personally, I like it.
    Last edited by finst3r; June 17th, 2013 at 01:28 PM.

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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    Generally speaking, in the .36 cal category I prefer a 124 grain weight. I have, and have carried, as light as 115 grain loads but that is the minimal I realistically go. Having spent a career in law enforcement and being privy to many shooting results I have to agree with the U.S. Border Patrol's take when it comes to .36 cal rounds. Basically, it is that they MUST generate at least 410 ft pds of energy to promote reliable expansion and create an acceptable temporary stretch cavity. They must also be of an adequate weight in order to penetrate to vital organ depth or defeat barriers. While this load by my calculation yields about 444.2 ftlbs of energy it is WAY to light to reliably punch through to vitals, especially if bone is encountered, or if you encounter a "amourphos-blob" of a person that you have to punch holes into. The load in question might work well for those who live in close quarter dwellings like apartments and the like, where overpentration is a major concern. But for a good general all-around carry load I prefer to put a little more weight behind the 9mm and similar loads.
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    As a side note: The advertised velocity of a Double Tap 124 grain +P 9mm is 1310 fps from a 4.5" barrel. This equates to 472 ft lbs of muzzle energy, which surpasses the Liberty Civil Defense Loading. It uses a bonded JHP that is a Remington Golden Saber (looking at the box as I type). Therefore you get dramatically more penetration than the Civil Defense load, plus the benefits of a bonded bullet. So I hope this puts this in a perspective, as it were.

    By the way I looked at these rounds first hand about 4-5 days ago at a LGS. The hollow point was so deep you could drink coffee out of it.....bad thing is the bullet is so light its a styrofoam cup you'd be using.
    DetChris and msgt/ret like this.
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    These are fine if you're providing air security on a commercial jet. Otherwise, plan for the other 99.9% of defensive situations and carry the heaviest grain your gun will shoot reliably. There is plenty of data to support this.
    .45's should all shoot 230gr. well
    .40's should all shoot 180gr. No need to contemplate 165gr.
    9mm- I want to like 147, but not all pistols do. 124gr. should cycle through any 9mm, thus be the lightest round to consider.

    Pistol wounds are all about punching wide, deep holes. Secondary wound cavity is for rifle rounds. Pistols simply do not have the energy for this; at least not in the size we carry.

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    I'll stick with the heavy stuff.
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    Yeah, I'd just love to see what my follow-up shot times jumped to with that round!

    No thanks... I'd rather put three rounds through 'em.
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