Another article on stopping power

Another article on stopping power

This is a discussion on Another article on stopping power within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We are all looking for the best bullet to carry in our hand guns and rifles. It seems to be a never ending battle as ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: Another article on stopping power

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,743

    Another article on stopping power

    We are all looking for the best bullet to carry in our hand guns and rifles. It seems to be a never ending battle as to which round is better, which caliber is better and so on. I came across this article and thought I would share it here. IMO the author makes some very good points in regards to incapacitation and lethality. Based on the article it would appear that the fight in the BG really does come into play.

    Firearm Stopping Power - Fact, Fiction and Anecdotes
    nechaev, Badey, grouse and 2 others like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,519
    These discussions are getting a bit silly.

    Ask any deer hunter about stopping power.
    Simple physics dictate the result. M x V + (s^2) S= surface area.

    The type of weapon that would deliver REAL stopping power is not available to most American Citizens. (i.e) RPG, 50 cal full auto etc...
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  3. #3
    Member Array pignut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    199
    I shot a deer with a .338 lapua. Stopping power of that rifle round was apparent. I have seen several autopsies done. Unbelievable a head shot at close range with a .22 is most times devastating. It seems it has enough power at close range,straight on,to enter the skull but not enough to get out. So it bounces around.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    1,957
    Good read. No magic bullet no magic caliber.

    The tactical deployment of the handgun is half the battle. Predators, man or beast have one overriding strategy, that is to attack the easiest target of opportunity.

    Situation awareness revokes the target of opportunity part. A armed man or woman removes the easy part.
    Sharp07GT likes this.

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,625
    The only conclusion I get from caliber wars is "carry lots of ammo". Odds are one or two shots from any handgun aren't going to do the trick. Might as well have lots of shots and maybe even a BUG waiting in the rafters.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    3,082
    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    These discussions are getting a bit silly.

    Ask any deer hunter about stopping power.
    Simple physics dictate the result. M x V + (s^2) S= surface area...
    Sorry, but the "simple physics" pseudo-equation you cited has nothing to do with physics.
    Harryball and 481 like this.
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society - "Get Heeled! No, really!"
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    N FT Myers, FL
    Posts
    3,161
    Sorry not laying down on a mens room floor will take my chances standing
    onacoma likes this.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    indiana usa
    Posts
    2,563
    Fire untill the threat is eliminated. Carry as much ammo as you can. Stay safe and carry on.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,743
    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    These discussions are getting a bit silly.

    Ask any deer hunter about stopping power.
    Simple physics dictate the result. M x V + (s^2) S= surface area.

    The type of weapon that would deliver REAL stopping power is not available to most American Citizens. (i.e) RPG, 50 cal full auto etc...
    With all the new people coming around and asking questions about the best bullet, the best caliber, its nice to offer them something other than conjecture...
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Easy8 View Post
    Sorry not laying down on a mens room floor will take my chances standing
    My thoughts exactly! To prone out on a bathroom floor were my mother told me there were Ga-Zillion germ and disease! Heck I was stand on the toilets, however I've been told that the crabs can jump that high so what the use!

    However the idea to minimize your cross-section is the idea, but how many of use will know when the BGs are coming after us!


    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. -- John Adams

    If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! -- P.J. O'Rourke

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,848
    Soap and water work on germs, not so much on bullet holes. As you pointed out though bad guys are not into RSVP.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,997
    This is a good article, but I grit my teeth whenever I see this error:

    '“Knock-down” power is a term also sometimes used to describe a firearm’s capacity to incapacitate an attacker. But, we know that no firearm has literal “knock down” power. Given Newton’s Law about “equal and opposite reaction”, if a firearm had power enough to knock someone down, discharging it would generate a recoil which would knock down the person firing it.'

    This is absolutely false. Equal and opposite reaction applies to FORCE, not ENERGY. Energy is force applied over a distance, and because the bullet travels further forward through the barrel than the gun travels backwards while the bullet is in the barrel, vastly more kinetic energy is imparted to the bullet than to the gun, even though both see the same forces in opposite directions.

    A 12-gauge slug has kinetic energy roughly equivalent to a 10-pound bowling ball traveling at 85 miles per hour. Whether a slug knocks someone down has to do with how that energy is used when it hits them, but it definitely has ENOUGH energy to do it.
    Aceoky likes this.
    ...there is no arguing with such snivelling puppies, who allow superiors to kick them about deck at pleasure.

    ó Captain Bellamy

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO "The Most Dangerous City in America"
    Posts
    2,587
    Maxwell97 is exactly correct. The period of the applied force is also totally different, as the projectile is accelerating down the length of the barrel, and hits the target decelerating at a different rate, so it cannot be equal in that regard as well.

    I've easily killed more than a hundred deer. I've only had to track about 5 beyond a place where you could easily see where the shot occurred (ethical hunting). I've "autopsied" all of them but one. I've shot them with just about everything that its legal to shoot them with. I've shot them (antelope) at more than 600 yds. I shot one at 285 yds with a WWII M-1 with iron sights, and I jump shot a bedded doe at about 20 ft with a .357.

    At risk of going against all the Goo-Roos and devotees of Goo-Roos, and IN MY OPINION, stopping power is more related to shot placement than it is to caliber. Larger caliber, more room for error on the shot placement. Smaller caliber and less room for error. The old adage of aim small, miss small doesn't just go away because it a pistol with 15 rounds, or a man and not an a different animal.

    The only time you can say "volume of fire", and "accuracy" in the same sentence is at point blank range for 99% of people. I've never had to pull a pistol on a person, so maybe if all these guys are gun slingers with notches on their grips you can dismiss my opinion, but in my life I've found that the party to the fight that strikes first and strikes hardest is generally the winner. My first shot is the most important one there is ever going to be up to and including that very moment. If its accurate all the follow up shots, and every factor that comes after is on a slippery slope in my favor. If it's misplaced everything is more likely to go sideways.

    There's no question that conventional wisdom among the Goo-Roos, a lot of law enforcement, and even some places in the military is to fire a lighter load pistol rapidly and in volleys. Great, but if you think this is a substitute for accurate shot placement I just hope the guy on the other end is doing the same thing you are, because if he's calmer, aims, and puts his first shot right where he wants it it's going to be quite a bit more difficult for your volley or anything else you do to turn things around.

  14. #14
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    We are all looking for the best bullet to carry in our hand guns and rifles. It seems to be a never ending battle as to which round is better, which caliber is better and so on. I came across this article and thought I would share it here. IMO the author makes some very good points in regards to incapacitation and lethality. Based on the article it would appear that the fight in the BG really does come into play.

    Firearm Stopping Power - Fact, Fiction and Anecdotes
    Interesting read.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  15. #15
    481
    481 is offline
    Senior Member Array 481's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    US
    Posts
    605
    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    These discussions are getting a bit silly.

    Ask any deer hunter about stopping power.
    Simple physics dictate the result. M x V + (s^2) S= surface area.

    The type of weapon that would deliver REAL stopping power is not available to most American Citizens. (i.e) RPG, 50 cal full auto etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilowatt3 View Post
    Sorry, but the "simple physics" pseudo-equation you cited has nothing to do with physics.
    I think that the equation offered was intended to be some form (?) of Hatcher's RSP formula (which is actually momentum times cross-sectional area of the bullet), but it is hard to know if it means anything for deer.
    My favorite "gun" book-

    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

338 lapua stopping power

,
bullet stopping power and equsl amd opposite reaction
,
larry potterfield knockdown factor chart
Click on a term to search for related topics.