Remington Golden Saber 40 SW(160 Grain)and 9mm(124 Grain) Ammo Question

Remington Golden Saber 40 SW(160 Grain)and 9mm(124 Grain) Ammo Question

This is a discussion on Remington Golden Saber 40 SW(160 Grain)and 9mm(124 Grain) Ammo Question within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For those of you who has had any experience with Remington Golden Saber 40 SW in 160 Grain,what do you of it as a defense ...

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Thread: Remington Golden Saber 40 SW(160 Grain)and 9mm(124 Grain) Ammo Question

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    Member Array Secretariat's Avatar
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    Remington Golden Saber 40 SW(160 Grain)and 9mm(124 Grain) Ammo Question

    For those of you who has had any experience with Remington Golden Saber 40 SW in 160 Grain,what do you of it as a defense load?You see,I am thinking of getting a few for my Sig Sauer P229 Enchanced Elite,which I have on order.
    Thanks.

    PS.Also,I have another Sig Sauer P229 SAS Gen 2 and I am thinking of getting the Remington Golden Saber for it also to be used as a defense load.For those of you who have any experience with this round,what do you think of it.By the way,+p version of this round is out of the question as I live in the Philippines and the +P version is not available here.
    Thanks Again.


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    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    when it come down to what round/brand to carry in your gun the main factor is what does the gun like. the best and newest round on the market is no good if your gun will not feed, shoot, and eject it. one brand is not much better than the other brand. they all with do what you want when you pull the trigger. don't over think this, use the brand the gun will function the best with. ok,,,, now here it comes,,,,, this statement will throw some for a loop,,,, there is nothing wrong with using fmj bullets in your carry pistol. they feed, shoot, eject, and will stop the problem every time. also, they have done the job for many mango seasons.
    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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    Member Array TTPower's Avatar
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    Hello kababayan!

    Golden saber is a good round for self defense nothing to worry about it, just test it in your gun for reliability. If you have time try to visit or call Nashe they sometimes have Winchester Rangers which i feel is a better round. Twin Pines also sells the Hornady Critical Defense which has gained a lot of respect as a good defensive load.

    here is a link to some testing done on the Golden saber

    9mm Remington Golden Saber 147 gr Ammo Gel test - YouTube

    try doing a search on youtube they have a lot of ballistic gel testing on different ammo

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    Maraming Salamat,Pare,for the information.I already tried Nashe.What they have are the Corbon 135 Grain for 40 SW and Corbon 90 Grain +P.I found them too expensive.In regards to the Hornaby Critical Defense,how do they compare to the Golden Sabers?
    Thanks.

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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    Before I retired as a police officer I carried Golden Sabers on several occasions (as well as Gold Dots). In either the 40S&W or 9MM loads Golden Sabers are an excellent performer. Their bonded version is the one I personally prefer, and I actually have a mag of them loaded up as we speak. The 40 caliber 160 grainers develop a good amount of energy, which helps with reliable expansion. For the 9mm I have a personal preference for the 124 grain +P loads as the are highly accurate out of my pistols. Their performance in gel test is great, and street performance for these loads is about even with the Speer Gold Dot line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostMaker View Post
    Before I retired as a police officer I carried Golden Sabers on several occasions (as well as Gold Dots). In either the 40S&W or 9MM loads Golden Sabers are an excellent performer. Their bonded version is the one I personally prefer, and I actually have a mag of them loaded up as we speak. The 40 caliber 160 grainers develop a good amount of energy, which helps with reliable expansion. For the 9mm I have a personal preference for the 124 grain +P loads as the are highly accurate out of my pistols. Their performance in gel test is great, and street performance for these loads is about even with the Speer Gold Dot line.

    If I may ask,between the 160 Grain and 180 Grain in 40 SW,which has more recoil between the two and which has better expansion?The reason for me asking about the 9mm in None-+P 124 grain is because in the Philippines,where I live,there are no stocks of the +P version.
    Thanks.
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    Personally I think the 180 grainers are more of a "push" than anything. The lighter weights to me have more report and a "snap". In the 40 S&W loads I have tested the 180 grainers also display more accuracy overall, since the original load weight was 180 and the barrels of most all manufacturers I know are rifled for that original weight. If you are a stats kind of guy, Evan Marshall's study show the 180 grainers are less likely to over penetrate than the lighter, faster 160-155 grain weights. From my own personal-first-hand-knowledge, the 155-160 can, and often do, over penetrate even with torso hits. One shooting with a department I was with occured with the 155 grain Gold Dots. Roughly 50% of the rounds fired over penetrated the suspects torso. So I prefer the 180 grainers as they are more likely (note I said more likely, not 100% guarantee) to hit and stick than the faster stepping light weight loads. Part of the preception of recoil is also the muzzle report and blast. In my preception the lighter weights exhibit more report and blast than the 180 grainers. Of course this is my preception, yours maybe different.

    The non+P 9mm's are still good rounds, you just won't develop the velocity and muzzle energy of a +P load. The closer you drive a 9mm, or any .36 caliber in general, to the point its energy reaches 400 or so foot pounds you start to see more reliable expansion. This is why rounds such as the 110 grain 357 Magnum performed so well for the U.S. Border Patrol and the U.S. Marshal Service when they carried revolvers. The Remington 124 grain +P Golden Saber in 9mm has a factory velocity of 1180 fps, while the non +P delivers 1125 fps. So there is not a huge difference there. The +P loads deliver 384 foot pounds of energy and the non +P loads deliver 349 ft pds respectively. I like the +P loads because they are closer to that 400 ft pds mark, and therefore will exhibit more reliable expansion overall. That is NOT to say the non +P loads are poor performers, because they are actually excellent non +P loads. If you carry the non +P's you will still be well served. I have pasted Remingtons Comparison Table link for you to see for yourself the actually factory loading differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostMaker View Post
    Personally I think the 180 grainers are more of a "push" than anything. The lighter weights to me have more report and a "snap". In the 40 S&W loads I have tested the 180 grainers also display more accuracy overall, since the original load weight was 180 and the barrels of most all manufacturers I know are rifled for that original weight. If you are a stats kind of guy, Evan Marshall's study show the 180 grainers are less likely to over penetrate than the lighter, faster 160-155 grain weights. From my own personal-first-hand-knowledge, the 155-160 can, and often do, over penetrate even with torso hits. One shooting with a department I was with occured with the 155 grain Gold Dots. Roughly 50% of the rounds fired over penetrated the suspects torso. So I prefer the 180 grainers as they are more likely (note I said more likely, not 100% guarantee) to hit and stick than the faster stepping light weight loads. Part of the preception of recoil is also the muzzle report and blast. In my preception the lighter weights exhibit more report and blast than the 180 grainers. Of course this is my preception, yours maybe different.



    I've always thought that the heavier grain(180)penetrated more than the lighter grain(160)loads.I must have been wrong then.
    Thanks a lot for your reply and information.
    The non+P 9mm's are still good rounds, you just won't develop the velocity and muzzle energy of a +P load. The closer you drive a 9mm, or any .36 caliber in general, to the point its energy reaches 400 or so foot pounds you start to see more reliable expansion. This is why rounds such as the 110 grain 357 Magnum performed so well for the U.S. Border Patrol and the U.S. Marshal Service when they carried revolvers. The Remington 124 grain +P Golden Saber in 9mm has a factory velocity of 1180 fps, while the non +P delivers 1125 fps. So there is not a huge difference there. The +P loads deliver 384 foot pounds of energy and the non +P loads deliver 349 ft pds respectively. I like the +P loads because they are closer to that 400 ft pds mark, and therefore will exhibit more reliable expansion overall. That is NOT to say the non +P loads are poor performers, because they are actually excellent non +P loads. If you carry the non +P's you will still be well served. I have pasted Remingtons Comparison Table link for you to see for yourself the actually factory loading differences.

    Firearms Comparison - Shotguns Comparison - Rifles Comparison - Remington Guns Comparison
    I've always thought that the heavier grain(180)penetrated more than the lighter grain(160)loads.I must have been wrong then.
    Thanks a lot for your reply and information.

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    Senior Member Array Pinot's Avatar
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    Good to hear from you again. Your 229 WILL eat anything you feed it. I use 165 and 180 grain HST. Prefer the 180 but not always available here. Choose a good brand and either grain will get the job done. In a gun fight no will know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    I've always thought that the heavier grain(180)penetrated more than the lighter grain(160)loads.I must have been wrong then.
    Thanks a lot for your reply and information.
    No, that's actually a common misconception. Velocity, energy, and bullet design play a bigger part of penetration than just weight by itself. The 9mm is historically over penetrative in all but the most exotic bullet designs. Typically 9mm and 40 Auto loads in defensive shootings can produce penetration in the realm of 13.5 to 14+ inches. The vast majority of these will come with the higher velocity/lighter weight loads using bonded bullets like the Gold Dots and Golden Sabers. The extra velocity gained from the lower bullet weight means the round itself has more energy to not only expand, but also to penetrate. If a round does not expend all of its energy inside the target organism (body) then the left over energy remains with the bullet through its flight path resulting in penetration. This is why slower moving rounds like the 45 Auto in a 230 grain weight JHP will produce actual shooting penetration depths of around 11.5 to 12.0 inches (approximately). They deplete their energy inside the organism during the expansion phase of their terminal performance. This is also why FMJ loads in almost anything will punch right through tissue. There is not expansion of the FMJ (or little) and the remaining energy drives the bullet through and out of the target.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostMaker View Post
    No, that's actually a common misconception. Velocity, energy, and bullet design play a bigger part of penetration than just weight by itself. The 9mm is historically over penetrative in all but the most exotic bullet designs. Typically 9mm and 40 Auto loads in defensive shootings can produce penetration in the realm of 13.5 to 14+ inches. The vast majority of these will come with the higher velocity/lighter weight loads using bonded bullets like the Gold Dots and Golden Sabers. The extra velocity gained from the lower bullet weight means the round itself has more energy to not only expand, but also to penetrate. If a round does not expend all of its energy inside the target organism (body) then the left over energy remains with the bullet through its flight path resulting in penetration. This is why slower moving rounds like the 45 Auto in a 230 grain weight JHP will produce actual shooting penetration depths of around 11.5 to 12.0 inches (approximately). They deplete their energy inside the organism during the expansion phase of their terminal performance. This is also why FMJ loads in almost anything will punch right through tissue. There is not expansion of the FMJ (or little) and the remaining energy drives the bullet through and out of the target.
    Does that mean also that the heavier load(180 Grain-40 SW) shall expand more than the lighter load(165 Grain-40 SW)?
    Thanks.

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    The reason on why I am asking about the 165 Grain in 40 SW is because I cannot find the 180 Grain in the Golden Sabers here in the Philippines.


    PS.Is there a big difference between the 180 and 165 Grain when it comes to Recoil?
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    Maraming Salamat,Pare,for the information.I already tried Nashe.What they have are the Corbon 135 Grain for 40 SW and Corbon 90 Grain +P.I found them too expensive.In regards to the Hornaby Critical Defense,how do they compare to the Golden Sabers?
    Thanks.
    Hornady CD has a newer technolgy compared to Golden Saber. The only problem with Golden Saber is jacket seperation that why they came out with the BONDED version. Pero i don't think the bonded version is available here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    The reason on why I am asking about the 165 Grain in 40 SW is because I cannot find the 180 Grain in the Golden Sabers here in the Philippines.


    PS.Is there a big difference between the 180 and 165 Grain when it comes to Recoil?
    Thanks.
    Pare ok lng yung 165 and 180 grain both will do its job. if your gun has a short barrel 3"-3.5" (compact guns) mas prefer mo 165 gr. to make up for lost velocity and helps in expansion of the bullet.

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    Distinguished Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    The 165 gr. Golden Saber is softer kicking than some other light weight 40 S&W loads, recoil is on par with the 180 gr. loads.
    PF = power factor, the calculation can be used to compare recoil.
    This data is based on chrono averages from my Glock 27, in ascending order of calculated recoil:
    Federal 155 gr. HS 1,072 fps / 395# KE / 166 PF
    Federal 180 gr. HS 930 fps / 346# KE / 167 PF
    Remington 165 gr. GS 1,018 fps / 380# KE / 168 PF
    Winchester 155 gr. ST 1,090 fps / 409# KE / 169 PF
    Remington 180 gr. JHP 945 fps / 357# KE / 170 PF
    Speer Gold Dot 155 gr. 1,134 fps / 442# KE / 175 PF
    Winchester Ranger T 165 gr. 1,116 fps / 456# KE / 184 PF

    I like the Federal 180 Hydra Shok out of my Glock 27/23, the moderate recoil allows for second shot times out of my Glock 27/23 to be nearly the same as my Glock 26/19 loaded with +P; I say "nearly the same" because they averaged a whole .01 slower (1/100 second).
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