.223 less overpenetration than pistol round?

This is a discussion on .223 less overpenetration than pistol round? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was watching Self Defense TV the other day & one of the expert guests made the comment that .223 is a ideal choice for ...

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Thread: .223 less overpenetration than pistol round?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    .223 less overpenetration than pistol round?

    I was watching Self Defense TV the other day & one of the expert guests made the comment that .223 is a ideal choice for a self defense weapon for people that live in cities and are worried about overpenetration. He went on to say that a .223 round would penetrate home construction materials much less than pistol ammo would.

    I just can't wrap my mind around how this could be true. I always surmised that the OPPOSITE was true. Even if he had ball pistol ammo in mind, is this a plausible position?

    I carry .45ACP so let that be the basis of the comparison with pistol.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
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    Array Tangle's Avatar
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    I think it may be some what dependent on pistol caliber. A 9mm will penetrate more in typical home construction materials than a .223. I don't remember for sure, but I don't think the .45 ACP penetrates quite as much as a 9mm, in home construction materials.

    A veteran instructor at Blackwater said that in all the car/truck penetration tests he's done and demo'd, a 9mm penetrates better than any other pistol round and a .223. And yes, that included .357 sig.

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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    That's interesting.

    I guess I originally assumed that .223 fire would travel further because of its high velocity.

    When I saw the segment on SDTV, I began to consider if bullet mass was the critical factor. Being that most pistol bullets are more substantial than 60-odd grains, I thought that must be whyin the gentlemen's opinion pistol rounds penetrate more.

    Only that doesn't make sense with the comparative penetration of 9mm/45ACP that you offer. 45 is heavier; 9mm has higher velocity.

    Man. I'm just gonna have to do a mythbusters experiment one of these days. I still can't get my mind around it....
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
    Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
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    Member Array echo5tango's Avatar
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    check out the box o truth ... he did quite a few demonstrations of this "myth"

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    The info is correct when comparing SP or HP ammo in both 5.56/.223 and service pistol ammo. If you are a LEO you can get those test results from the FBI. Without digging thru my stuff to find the CD, IIRC 5.56/.223 with SP/HP ammo averages about 6" or 8" in the FBI tests or about 1/2 to 1/3 for the service calibers with SP/HP ammo.

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    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    Found the CD. I'm not permitted to do a cut an paste with the pages but here's a short recap of just a few rds representative of the bunch. These are average penetration depths with the extremes listed:

    5.52/.223 (test gun M-16A2)
    Winchester 55 gr Power SP - 8.35". 10.8" for bare gel, 3.5" auto glass.
    Federal 55 gr JHP - 7.4". 9.9" bare gel, 3.8" wallboard.
    Remington 60 gr JHP - 8.15". 10.5" bare gel, 4.7" auto glass.
    Federal 69 gr JHP - 10.47". 13.3" bare gel, 5.9" heavy clothing.
    Hornady 75 gr TAP - 11.58". 13.65" bare gel, 6.3" auto glass.

    .45 (test gun - S&W 4506)
    Speer 200 gr GD +P - 17.27". 24.9" plywood, 11.7" bare gel.
    Federal 230 gr JHP - 17.18". 24.85" wallboard, 12.4" auto glass.
    Speer 185 gr JHP - 14.49". 21.25" steel, 11.6" auto glass.
    Federal 230 gr HydraShok - 18.39". 22.55" plywood, 14.8" auto glass.
    Speer 230 GD - 16.84". 25.9" wallboard, 11.2" auto glass.

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    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    the .223 round penetration of home construction materials is much less than most pistol ammo. for years we carried the colt smg (9mm) on the job for "raids". then later on we conducted penetration tests. we found out that the 9mm round (ball and/or hp) would cut thru the walls (both sides) like a hot knife thru butter. then we tested the .223. we found that the round would go thru the first wall board but not out the second wall. the 223 round would stay between the walls most of the time (90+ %). they took the smg away, and gave us ar15. i can not remember what happen to the other rounds tested, but the 12 ga 00 buck sure did make a mess of the walls (bass thru) and the slug punch thru also..

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    Member Array speedlinehobbies's Avatar
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    Check out
    www.theboxotruth.com
    They do some testing with a number of rounds , including 9mm and .223 . Its not a scientific site , but they have lots of good info .
    Anyone make a IWB holster for my AR ??

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    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. And sorry for bringing up an old topic. I didn't know that it had long been settled...

    See that. You learn something new every day.
    2nd Amendment: because personal violence never makes an appointment.
    Evil resides in the heart of the individual, not in inanimate objects.
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    Member Array dboutwell's Avatar
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    he's nuts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, lol

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    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    IIRC, the magic is the tumbling action of a .223 (depending on bullet construction) once it hits the first solid object.

    There was quite a discussion about this on the AR15-L way back before Y2K.
    NRA Instructor

  13. #12
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    The 5.56 doesn't really tumble, it yaws and fragments check this out about penetration:

    http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#punch

    http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#jspsafe

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