Too lite, Too slow, Just Right???

This is a discussion on Too lite, Too slow, Just Right??? within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let me start off by saying that i truly did try to search the forum but didn't find an answer to my question...... So, regarding ...

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Thread: Too lite, Too slow, Just Right???

  1. #1
    Member Array usmc0311's Avatar
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    Too lite, Too slow, Just Right???

    Let me start off by saying that i truly did try to search the forum but didn't find an answer to my question......

    So, regarding 9mm ammo choices, I hear people touting the benefit of a fast moving 124 gr bullet or a heavier 147gr. A buddy of mine carries Hornady 135 gr. Critical Duty. In theory it seems as this grain weight should have the best of both worlds. What are yall's (yes, I'm a Southern Boy) thoughts???
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Very good round, hornady is famous for reliable feeding due to a smaller opening than a lot of other brands.

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    For my 9mm, I won't carry anything less than 124 grains. My .45 always gets 230 grains for supper. Under ideal conditions, any grain will work. Under less than ideal conditions, any weight can fail.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Below is a link to some good info on this topic:



    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

    Heres a good list put together by Xmike

    pick one of the following rounds from the list 9mm choices:

    9mm
    Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) such as loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
    Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
    Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
    Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA)
    Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
    Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
    Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364)
    Speer Gold Dor 124gr JHP
    Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
    Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
    Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
    Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
    Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
    Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
    Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)
    Federal HST 124gr JHP +P (P9HST3)
    You might notice that the list does NOT include any lightweight bullets with the exception of the Barnes 115gr version. The reason - especially if you've read the beginning of this article - should be clear already, but Doctor Roberts sums it up nicely as well: "With the exception of the Barnes 115 gr XPB all copper projectile, in general, most 9 mm 115 gr loads have demonstrated greater inconsistency, insufficient penetration, poor intermediate barrier capability, and failure to expand in denim testing than other 9mm bullets. For those individuals wanting to use lighter weight, supersonic 9 mm’s, I think a better alternative than the vast majority of 115 gr loads is to use the slightly heavier 124 to 127 gr bullets or the Barnes 115 gr all copper bullet"
    Last edited by StormRhydr; September 4th, 2013 at 08:32 PM.

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    Senior Member Array Sap03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    Below is a link to some good info on this topic:

    The first link says sign in, when pasted, but it goes to the right topic.

    Sign In | GetOffTheX

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
    The first link doesn't work, it asks for a log-in

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    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    the 9mm Critical Duty round has significant recoil compared to most 9mm SD rounds. it MUST, it order to meet the FBI protocols. so, yes, it's a good SD choice, but the downside will be slower shot-to-shot times.

    my own preferences, which seem to be different from many DC members, is for a lighter, faster bullet, usually at +P velocities, which probably won't penetrate as much as the heavier 147 grain bullets. in my mini-9 (Kahr CM-9), i use Hornady Critical Defense 115 grain standard pressure rounds.

    my advice is to pick an SD load from one of the established manufacturers (which includes smaller companies such as CorBon, Buffalo Bore, and Double Tap), THAT FEEDS, FIRES, AND CYCLES 100% OF THE TIME IN YOUR GUN. i wouldn't spend too much time obsessing over what is "the best".

    IMO, it's mostly theoretical anyway, as it's not possible to conduct definitive testing using real live human attackers. nevertheless, many folks are quite vehement in defense of their theoretical preferences.




    "The best is the enemy of the good." Voltaire

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    Senior Member Array patri0t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    Below is a link to some good info on this topic:

    The first link says sign in, when pasted, but it goes to the right topic...................... (snip)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
    An excellent site posted above. Myself, I first look for ft-lbs of energy delivered. According to the above chart, the Winchester Ranger +P+ was high at 441 (they termed it "force". I wouldn't put +P+ in a firearm, unless I was certain it could take it.

    I was issued 9mm Rangers for years as duty ammo.
    All my sidearms are +P rated, so they all get +P for carry.
    The chart matches what I use in my .45acps quite well. The Hornady Critical Duty is new, but has to be 'awesome'. I have used their 'Critical Defense' and it it is A+.
    I have cases of Hornady in +P, for carry with the XTP bullets.

    Also, if you are using a barrel under 3.5 inches, you may want to try Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P GDHP "For Short Barrels"... another LE issue.
    I also love Corbon +P with a good bullet config.

    Now that I'm retired and only need a 20 ft range realistically, for self defense, I pretty much use the ammo in this post, or their equivalent.
    I like to get 400 ft-lbs 'Minimum Energy' at 20 feet (same as muzzle data, for practical purposes) for my 9mms, regardless of "bullet weight", for defense/carry loads.
    Then is to decide on the best bullet configuration for transferring that energy, usually some type of JHP.

    For practice, I use cheaper RN ammo with the same bullet weight.
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sap03 View Post
    The first link doesn't work, it asks for a log-in
    Thanks. I guess it worked for me as I was already logged in. I deleted that link.

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    I see what I can shoot best. If there's no difference, I go heavier - 147.

    I honestly don't think about these weight v. velocity decisions that much. Either will likely do the job, and either will fail. If you land two or three, one might fail, two might succeed...
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    VIP Member Array Kennydale's Avatar
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    I am new to this and was recommended to use Hornady Critical Duty .40S&W 175 Grain. Shortly i am going to replenish my SD Hornady, this will give me a chance to take the older loads and just target shoot them. I yet to shoot any of the SD ammo. Usually at the range I'll use the FMJ Winchester White box.

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    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy8 View Post
    Very good round, hornady is famous for reliable feeding due to a smaller opening than a lot of other brands.
    They're also well known for not reliably working in HK guns due to incorrect OL. Hornaday publicly acknowledged that some of their ammo is longer than SAMMI spec, this is well documented. Probably fixed by now, just pointing it out. I won't buy their stuff for that reason (most of my sidearms are HK). In any event you'll want to run a few boxes thru your gun to verify function (which you would want to do in any case).
    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    my bullet can beat up your bullet

    Hammers come in a wide variety of styles, weights, claws, and faces. You can get an Estwing in a 16oz, 20oz, 22oz, rip or framing or rock-pick style, leather or wooden or nylon-vinyl grip handle. Or maybe even in a 14oz drywall hammer. Truth be told, anyone of um will drive a nail into a piece of wood. But it donít matter if you use an Eatwing 24oz solid steel ball-peen hammer or a Dollar Store camping hatchet turn sideways. If you donít hit the nail on the head, it ain't goiní nowhere`s.

    Same with a bullet, itís a tool. They are very dangerous tools but a tool just the same. If you donít hit what you need to hit with it where you need to hit it at; it donít matter what bullet youíre shooting.

    Yes some may be considered too be more lethal then others. But Iíll take a 9mm 115g FMJ hitting something in its forehead right between its eyes, then a top-notch SD-JHP in any weight value delivering a glancing blow to a chest to detour any threat any day.

    Wouldnít it just be so nice if they Ö. whom ever yaíll want they to be Ö.. only made only one SD bullet in each caliber-made to chose from? Itís kind ah like going into Baskin Robbins for an ice cream cone and having to pick just only one flavor. I like moose tracks chocolate double crunch cookie chips, you like peanut butter caramel slush, and the person next inline just likes plain olí vanilla.

    Point is Ö.. just like the pizza dude you order home delivery from on your dumb-fone, donít matter what pie you order, it still has to get delivered to the right place for it too be right.
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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    The light fast fragmenting bullets have an excellent record on the street. The lab guys and jello junkies do no like them because they do not do well in jello and fail the "FBI protocol" which was developed by Fackler and his followers.

    Two rounds that come to mind are the 115 +P+ 9mm JHP and the 125 grain 357 Magnum JHP.
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    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

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    Go heavy, or go home.
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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Go heavy, or go home.
    You sound like a good wing man.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

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